Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

rpeddie

Cgs Rejects/coins Not Worth Paying To Grade

Recommended Posts

just wondering if it would be a good idea to have a topic where members would be able to post the lots of coins they are going to be sending away to get graded(cgs ngc pcgs or nnc if you are that way inclined :P) and get some community help with whether or not some items are worth it in the end?

2 main things i thought to begin with is the likes of obvious cleaning and money worth(sending in a low value coin <£20) and being charged almost the coins value to have it graded?

i thought something like this would be able to help as i just recently sent away 31 and 6 came back rejected, was one of those moments where i can see what was wrong with them after but totally didn't think of it at the time.

so basically advice on what coins are worth getting sent away and advice on ones not to send away so as not to waste money :)

any advice apreciated :)

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hah, CGS, this'll be popular! ;)

Now, where does one start? Actually, it's a good reason to stick with hammered, though I believe they are now attempting those too!

Basically, WHY? And then after that, all that's left is about turning the same coin into the same coin, but for someone else, which means we're only talking about the commercial aspect of slabbing?

So, slabbing coins under the value of actual slabbing fee + extra profit made through inflated prestige of a slabbed coin just isn't viable! Slabbing higher-value/grade coins, yes, believe it or not, someone will pay a fools random for it!

I sent off around 20 some time ago, of which 3 or 4 came back unslabbed! An 1887 jubilee coin, declared a fake, which tested for high-grade silver composition, and I still to this day don't get it! A G4 farthing with 'active' verd????? didn't get that either! And a variety C2 farthing, which they graded SO low, it wouldn't financially stand amongst its peers, so I broke it out, and sold it amongst its peers!

Big thing, I'd only slab to sell to those who don't know their coins, for hard bucks, so I can understand why you need to find all this out, as it's a bloody great waste of time (long, long, time!) and money otherwise!

Ohhhh, TPGC's what have you done to us?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

whether or not some items are worth it in the end?

OK, here's my take eddie. Which is basically the same as Coinery's!

If you plan to sell coins to US buyers, it may be worth slabbing. However you'd be best off using PCGS or NGC as American buyers know them and don't know CGS. PCGS is said to be a bit stricter. However neither is guaranteed to be reliable with non-US coins.

If you're planning to sell to CGS collectors .. well, there aren't that many of them. And for most everyone else, it's a coin in a slab that will need breaking out. Slab premium? In the US, yes. Here, very debatable anyone will pay more for a coin just because it's slabbed.

If you want to protect your coins from finger marks/ damage, well, capsules will do that for cheaper.

And if you like the slabs or having your coins listed in the CGS population reports / hall of fame, ... go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Eddie

I would like to see images of the 6 rejected coins for the forum to chew over.

TPG is not my thing.

There would have to be a very good reason for someone to tell me how to suck eggs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought if a coin was rejected and you have obviously paid your money that you'd get it free next submission?

Where's Bill Pugsley, he can tell us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought if a coin was rejected and you have obviously paid your money that you'd get it free next submission?

Where's Bill Pugsley, he can tell us.

You've got to be kidding? In a commercial world, the answer to that is most definitely no! In the real world, they never told me I had a few freebies! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought if a coin was rejected and you have obviously paid your money that you'd get it free next submission?

Where's Bill Pugsley, he can tell us.

...and then he can tell us about their worthless guarentee (which he promised to clear up last time he was here - but didn't).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reading over what you guys have put so far has made me totally reconsider my whole approach to graded coins i assumed grading was more popular and wider accepted than it really is :P

as to my reasons i am new to the whole coin collecting thing and have found books on grading to be no use in helping with deciding whether a coin is UNC or EF in particular so i use it to sort of gauge whether i am getting any better at the grading if that makes sense. in future ill need to haste you guys expertise more and save myself a few bob :D

for the pictures it alright if i just give the id no?

the 6 are as follows

0028023 cleaned

0028015 field damage? not sure what that means really

0028019 scratches-same as field damage understand

0027994 scratches same again

0027998 Verdigris

0027996 -cleaned

ill put up the pictures in a sec if needed ill just re size them

i can see the cleaned ones and understand and the verdigris at a push but the other 2 have me stumped

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do they charge the same for coins they don't slab?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do they charge the same for coins they don't slab?

Yes. You have to paid upfront and there are no (partial) refunds as far as I know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea they still charge the full amount even if rejected (had 3 wreath crowns i graded as mentioned in earlier topic all charged at £23 each and told they are forgeries)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The coins are all fairly low value.

Slabbing cost would be questionable and outweigh the perceived benefit of ....."cough cough...extra value"

All the rejected coins would sell raw on Ebay.

If the rest of your slabbed coins didn't achieve what you hoped.It amounts to a sum that could have bought something nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do they charge the same for coins they don't slab?

The one's they send back in a little plastic flip with a sticker on it, probably covers the annual invoice for plastic slabs! Edited by Coinery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the rest of your slabbed coins didn't achieve what you hoped.It amounts to a sum that could have bought something nice.

always does make me think about this aspect of it as last time i spent about £450 grading the 30 odd coins and could have spent that on even more coins if not send to be graded. with regards to graded ones, ive never been to coin fairs and the likes but are there stalls where they sell graded coins and also do they seem to do very well?

think im still getting over how unpopular graded British coins are :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the rest of your slabbed coins didn't achieve what you hoped.It amounts to a sum that could have bought something nice.

always does make me think about this aspect of it as last time i spent about £450 grading the 30 odd coins and could have spent that on even more coins if not send to be graded. with regards to graded ones, ive never been to coin fairs and the likes but are there stalls where they sell graded coins and also do they seem to do very well?

think im still getting over how unpopular graded British coins are :D

Coin fairs are generally populated by those who've transcended the need to have an item graded for them so, whilst I've never even sold a burger at a coin fair, I'd say I wouldn't be backing my beer money on a table dealing only in slabs! Could be wrong, mind you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the rest of your slabbed coins didn't achieve what you hoped.It amounts to a sum that could have bought something nice.

always does make me think about this aspect of it as last time i spent about £450 grading the 30 odd coins and could have spent that on even more coins if not send to be graded. with regards to graded ones, ive never been to coin fairs and the likes but are there stalls where they sell graded coins and also do they seem to do very well?

think im still getting over how unpopular graded British coins are :D

I think its how strict CGS is that Put people off, couple that with their recent price increase for a longer turnaround, makes great business sense. You could also try PCGS in Paris. If you Join their Club (Joe public cannot submit unless in their club) it cost around $200-$300 for a year and you can get 8 free submissions with that. 8 submissions to CGS will cost £240 which is $384 from CGS, this does'nt include your return postage, but your coins will be in a much more widely popular slab.

Personally i won't go back to CGS unless it was a Major rarity with known fakes

Edited by azda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

think im still getting over how unpopular graded British coins are :D

I think there's a difference between unpopular and just ... well, not popular. I don't believe people will avoid a TP graded coin if it's at a competitive price. It's just for most UK collectors it's a bit irrelevant.

I think we don't see the point of paying for someone else's opinion and storage is a bit of a problem unless all your coins are slabbed. And there certainly isn't the market here that there is in the US where a(n) raw (unslabbed) coin, or one certified by a lesser known TPGS, just won't make the price of a PGCS or NGC slab. The coin market in the US is just very different from the one here.

Things might change if we see more high quality Chinese fakes. But then, it hasn't solved the problem in the US and there's no reason to think the UK will be any different. Unless people see a benefit from grade/slabbing it's unlikely to catch on much more than it has so far. IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the coins rejected are now sent back slabbed with a yellow sticker,rather than the normal white.This is similar to the NGC details route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the coins rejected are now sent back slabbed with a yellow sticker,rather than the normal white.This is similar to the NGC details route.

There ya go. £30 for a slab, can't be bad. Could probably buy 100 on his own at that price, and he had 6 rejects. Thats some good money by anyones standards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

reading over what you guys have put so far has made me totally reconsider my whole approach to graded coins i assumed grading was more popular and wider accepted than it really is :P

as to my reasons i am new to the whole coin collecting thing and have found books on grading to be no use in helping with deciding whether a coin is UNC or EF in particular so i use it to sort of gauge whether i am getting any better at the grading if that makes sense. in future ill need to haste you guys expertise more and save myself a few bob :D

for the pictures it alright if i just give the id no?

the 6 are as follows

0028023 cleaned - yes it's been polished

0028015 field damage? not sure what that means really - scratches behind Georges head

0028019 scratches-same as field damage understand - couple of small scratches below the bust (a bit unfair to reject that!)

0027994 scratches same again - I don't get that, do they mean a few scuffs in the truncation? That's a nice halfcrown by the way

0027998 Verdigris - there's a TINY spot of green between the Scottish lion and the English leopards

0027996 -cleaned - yes, the bust looks polished at some point in the past

ill put up the pictures in a sec if needed ill just re size them

i can see the cleaned ones and understand and the verdigris at a push but the other 2 have me stumped

To be honest, the only one worth slabbing is the Viccy halfcrown (the 1952 sixpence at a pinch if it was perfect). The others are perfectly collectable but I'd avoid paying through the nose for slabbing them.

Edited by Peckris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the coins rejected are now sent back slabbed with a yellow sticker,rather than the normal white.This is similar to the NGC details route.

There ya go. £30 for a slab, can't be bad. Could probably buy 100 on his own at that price, and he had 6 rejects. Thats some good money by anyones standards

You could say they are the much rarer yellow sticker variety :) .

I think they are trying to give you something for your money,before they just came back in a flip,so at least now you get the slab albeit rejected.

Having said that if it was valued at 2k,and came back rejected UNC scratched,at least you know that CGS graded it as UNC apart from said scratch.

This means that they have stated the coin is UNC rather than anywhere from 75 to 85 as a normal grade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eddie

Get yourself along to a fair.There are slabbed coins on sale but few and far between & apart from London Coins they rarely appear in auctions.

Save your slabbing money.

At the end of the day it is up to the individual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quite a fast turnaround for yours overall how long did it take for you to get them back? took me 2 months both times i did it.

i agree with what they say about the inconsistency of the grading too ive seen some of the first graded coins that they have done to be quite low for being graded at 80's and such (if my grading opinion is worth much )

from this i think i have managed to do a u turn convince myself not to send any more off unless they are higher value ones:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quite a fast turnaround for yours overall how long did it take for you to get them back? took me 2 months both times i did it.

i agree with what they say about the inconsistency of the grading too ive seen some of the first graded coins that they have done to be quite low for being graded at 80's and such (if my grading opinion is worth much )

from this i think i have managed to do a u turn convince myself not to send any more off unless they are higher value ones:)

My first batch (7 coins last February) returned in 5 weeks and my second (9 coins in June), 8 weeks (although I did have a request that may have delayed them slightly).

I would agree totally with your comments about the coins they graded in the first few years, inconsistent, poor photographs and generally not as strict as more recently.

My personal opinion of their offering is currently:

Positives

  • a valuable service for authenticating English coins, especially those where forgeries are rife, I believe their reputation is fairly high in this area, and I have had a good personal experience with a forged coin which resulted in a full refund from the seller
  • high grade and/or rare English coins can definitely achieve higher prices in a CGS slab, sometimes MUCH higher prices. The few I have sold have achieved excellent prices, certainly much better than I would expect if sold raw on eBay.
  • I like the fact that you can email/phone/visit them easily and speak to one of the graders looking at your coins (in my experience)
  • Having visited them and spend some considerable time being shown their extensive 'benchmark' coins, grading and rejection criteria,and computerised scoring algorithms, I was impressed with the thoroughness and (potentially) consistent, if strict, approach, having bravely invented a new 1-100 scoring system. They were very welcoming and open and anyone can arrange a similar visit, free of charge or obligation

Negatives (some of these points apply to TPG offerings generally)

  • There is very little point spending £13 + 2-way postage slabbing a coin worth less than, say, £30, unless for resale with potential for recouping the outlay from a premium price, or unless you want your entire collection to be housed in boxes of slabs
  • For CGS, with less than 30,000 coins in their database their population reports are pretty worthless - I have 3 'finest knowns', only because they are the 'only knowns', and they are not that rare (the 1705 and 1707 shillings are 2 of them)
  • Rejecting coins due to 'damage' such as flan cracks is a nonsense, and gives them a real problem with hammered, but they have set out their store
  • They have a 1-100 scale, with a seemingly precise scoring system, but don't use most of the scores at all - for example, from VF - BU they only use (I think):
    • 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 78, 80, 82, 85, & 88

and I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong (Nick?)), to score 90 or above it has to be a Proof, which is pretty flawed seeing as Proof is not in and of itself a grade

  • Once slabbed, the coins are difficult to re-photograph, so you are reliant on your own pre-slabbed pics or scans, or CGS' own, which on occasion have been sub-standard
  • Their value proposition has been compromised recently, when they upped their prices and increased the turnaround times, with no quid pro quo, or option for an 'express' service
  • There will always be the suspicion, at the very least, that there is a (potential - Chris) conflict of interest with London Coins, who have their coins slabbed by CGS, own 49% of them, share their premises (a glorified portacabin in a village in Kent), and (probably) share their staff

I will use them again if I don't mind waiting, and want to authenticate or sell a high value coin which will sell at a premium if slabbed by them

Bill Pugsley - please come back and join in!

Edited by Paulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×