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Colin88

CGS - A customer-facing business?

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Me:...."Hello, is that CGS?"

CGS: (Bored Sounding bloke) "Yes"

Me: "Do you give discount for bulk orders"

CGS: "No"

Me: "Do you do any faster turnaround times than quoted...if I paid extra?"

CGS: "No"

Me: "I have tens of thousands of pounds worth of high value coins that I would like slabbed...ideally I dont want to use post, can I deliver them in person to your office?"

CGS: "No"

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Me: "Have I failed to mistake you for someone who actually gives a damn?"

CGS: "No"

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Aw, c'mon. It's not like sitting on the phone so you can tell people how to stick prefectly good coins into a little plastic coffin is going to be anyone's dream job is it?

Poor chap probably didn't have enough A Levels to get a proper 'Do you want fries with that?' job ...

:lol:

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Their eBay postage times are about as reliable as their completion dates for slabbing, I'm STILL waiting for my eBay purchase!

They were also a month late, of an already lengthy time period, when I got some coins slabbed!

They need some quality UK competition!

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Their eBay postage times are about as reliable as their completion dates for slabbing, I'm STILL waiting for my eBay purchase!

They were also a month late, of an already lengthy time period, when I got some coins slabbed!

They need some quality UK competition!

Its probably the reason why they take so long Stuart. A few moans on their forum might help them take their finger from out of their arse. Perhaps divemaster could mention the poor customer relations as he advocates CGS and i think a Moderator on their forum

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Their eBay postage times are about as reliable as their completion dates for slabbing, I'm STILL waiting for my eBay purchase!

They were also a month late, of an already lengthy time period, when I got some coins slabbed!

They need some quality UK competition!

Its probably the reason why they take so long Stuart. A few moans on their forum might help them take their finger from out of their arse. Perhaps divemaster could mention the poor customer relations as he advocates CGS and i think a Moderator on their forum

I have to speak from my own personal experience with them, and have to admit my dealings with them have been pretty good, but I have dealt face to face with Semra or Stephen at the Midland coin fair, where they have taken coins for submission and have bought them back to the next fair to save me postage....I had an abrupt conversation with someone via phone once about a mis-attribution on a farthing, but it was resolved quickly enough.

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From there website click on forum

then faq

When submitting coins to the service

On the submission form, where it says "coin value", what is meant by this - is this the value that I think the Spink guide (for example), would list for such a coin, assuming I've judged the grade correctly, the amount I paid for the coin, or some other value? Obviously this can be quite subjective... Also I have a few coins that, depending on the precise grade might be worth a little less than £200 or a little more - in these cases, should I assume the higher value for the purpose of selecting the service option number?

Most collectors tend to use the value they either paid for the coin or what they actually believe the value is based upon Spink or similar catalogue. A good rule of thumb would be what would it cost you to replace the coin in the current market should it be lost in the post (bearing in mind that the Post Office maximum compensation is £2,500 for enhanced Special Delivery). If you have individual coins valued at over £2,500 it is worth the trip to CGS offices. A single despatch of a number of coins to CGS may total more than £2,500.

Soaccording to that you can deliver :)

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I found the CGS service pretty shocking the last time I used them. They failed to forward the coins more than 3 weeks after the actual encapsulations (you can monitor progres on their website). The reply I have got when I phoned them was that they "would only post in batches". I then emailed Semra and the coins were dispatched on the same day. Just need to complain to the management when you get nonsense on the phone.

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I guess in the absence of any competitor for UK coin slabbing, we just have to swallow whatever treatment we're dealt out!

I suppose we could always vote with our feet? Not that it's going to make a lot of difference when there are others queuing up!

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I guess in the absence of any competitor for UK coin slabbing, we just have to swallow whatever treatment we're dealt out!

I suppose we could always vote with our feet? Not that it's going to make a lot of difference when there are others queuing up!

Or start a competitor.

Oh, did I say that out loud? :ph34r:

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I guess in the absence of any competitor for UK coin slabbing, we just have to swallow whatever treatment we're dealt out!

I suppose we could always vote with our feet? Not that it's going to make a lot of difference when there are others queuing up!

Or start a competitor.

Oh, did I say that out loud? :ph34r:

I have been following this thread because of my personal interest in the CGS process. I have had a number of articles published in Coin News dealing with grading of coins (slabbing) and to date I have submitted over 2,000 (yes two thousand!) coins to the CGS Service. I have paid the commercial rate for the grading by CGS because compared to the North American competition CGS pricing is more than reasonable (go and check if you do not believe me).

I am so interested in promoting CGS (there, a declared interest!) that I set up and moderate the CGS forum (one of the contributors to these comments has obviously seen the forum because they have extracted in its entirety a ‘frequently asked question and its response’). My expectation is CGS coins will become more collectable and thus premium pieces will increase in value.

Dealing with the points made by Colin88 – CGS does not discount but as I have noted their prices are more than reasonable (£11.99 compared to US$35.00). If you want a fast turnaround the submission form on the CGS Site tells you the prices to get coins back in approximately five days! Not deliver in person? Frankly this amazes me and I wonder did he reach the right telephone number? People deliver to CGS by appointment or during office hours; to deliver to NGC or PCGS you need an appointment unless it is one of their agents. CGS accepts deliveries at coin shows that they attend and at London Coin Auctions.

As to the suggestion of competition – could they offer the quality of result that CGS does for UK & World coins? NGC and PCGS are companies that CGS is competing against. If you are from North America you will probably implicitly trust NGC and PCGS but having owned coins graded by both companies I have come to prefer (an understatement) the CGS service. Next time you have an NGC graded copper British penny in its capsule – use a decent magnifier and you may find verdigris or corrosion. On this same subject, CGS use Graders who each have over 20 years experience of working with British & World Coins – yet even CGS say if you have coins from North America – get them graded by US Companies.

Who else records the varieties that CGS does for the coins it grades? I am told that April 2013 Coin News will have an article on the subject of varieties. I think NGC and PCGS recognise two types of currency silver two pence for 1838 whereas CGS have already identified eight – and the list goes on!

I would admit it would be great to get coins back in 14 days (but they advise that for a cost of £11.99 that the turnaround time is 30 to 90 days). The problem I suspect is one of logistics and costs (roll on a competitor I hear you say). Were CGS receiving 1000 coins a week then I am sure that they would put more dedicated time into the grading process and providing a faster turnaround. As it is I believe there are sometimes when they receive many coins in one week and none in the following weeks. This is why they offer estimated times for return of encapsulated coins because they do batch up submissions to be ‘economic’ for grading. If they did not do so they would not be able to run the service at all and we would lose the only British Competition to the US companies.

I plan to continue to submit coins to CGS for grading at their commercial rates and accept that I may have to wait up to ninety days for coins to be returned. A delay I am prepared to tolerate given I trust the results of their service!

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Bill, thank you for your input and your interest in this discussion.

If you are a big fan of the CGS service, then you have no doubt followed the very many discussions in these forums on the pros and cons of slabbing. You will no doubt have seen that the vast majority of collectors here who have expressed an opinion, are either mostly against slabbing (but may own one or two slabbed pieces) or totally against them. You will also be aware, I'm sure, that there are some very serious collectors here, by which I mean NOT how seriously they take the hobby (we all do) but how much resource they put into tracking down very rare varieties and types, provenancing them, and then storing them.

You are defending CGS against similar North American TPGs, specifically on the grading and slabbing of British coins. Even those of us who are against slabbing would agree that CGS are probably the best for British coins. Look at all the many complaints here about NGC - which you rightly pointed your finger at - and you will see that is true. Pro-slabbers will use CGS here in the UK because apart from their sluggish turnaround times, they seem to do a good job.

Not all is sweetness and light, however. How else do you explain the appearance on eBay of very ordinary 1915 farthings, slabbed by CGS, and offered for sale at a vastly inflated price? "Ah", you might well respond, "that's not the fault of CGS, the pricing was set by the seller in the hope that a slabbed coin would command a high price". Fair enough. Yet the seller in question was traced back to London Coins. It therefore now looks like a clumsy attempt to promote the service by setting precedents for high prices on eBay for slabbed coins.

Those who like slabbing defend the practice vigorously, and fair do's to them. Those of us who are against, and who prefer to remove our coins (with care) once in a while from their mahogany cabinet, and held up to be viewed and loved in the best light, look on askance at the growth of TPG services, and we wonder why a similar service could not be offered where the coin is graded and photographed, and the results sealed into a thin plastic capsule that could be stored separately from the coin, but included with it if it was sold?

You are pro-slabs so you may not be open to the arguments against them, but I hope you will reflect on the fact that not everyone - and in these forums that means the vast majority - are in favour, or would willingly use the services of a TPG.

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Welcome Bill. Although, as Peckris says, slabbing has something of a bad name amongst many of our regular forum members it's really good that someone with a strongly different view is prepared to come on here and debate the process. Personally, I'm quite happy with the concept of grading and slabbing although I've not felt the need to use the service myself. Nevertheless, many of my coins were slabbed when I bought them and I've found no reason to crack them open.

I completely agree about the advantages of CGS versus the US TPGs. Both the grades and identification of GB coins, particularly by NGC, is very suspect. Some would say that's an advantage, if only because it allows the canny buyer to find some real hidden bargains!

As you have highlighted, the problem for CGS (and indeed London Coins to some extent) is surely volume. They don't get enough work to even out the peaks and troughs, which results in big delays, and they can't afford the security that they ought to have for the value of merchandise they handle. My last visit involved meeting in the nearby car park, which wasn't especially good for customer satisfaction!

For me, the jury's still out, but if the market does move towards the US model then I might eventually be persuaded to get some of my collection entombed.

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Welcome Bill. Although, as Peckris says, slabbing has something of a bad name amongst many of our regular forum members it's really good that someone with a strongly different view is prepared to come on here and debate the process. Personally, I'm quite happy with the concept of grading and slabbing although I've not felt the need to use the service myself. Nevertheless, many of my coins were slabbed when I bought them and I've found no reason to crack them open.

I completely agree about the advantages of CGS versus the US TPGs. Both the grades and identification of GB coins, particularly by NGC, is very suspect. Some would say that's an advantage, if only because it allows the canny buyer to find some real hidden bargains!

As you have highlighted, the problem for CGS (and indeed London Coins to some extent) is surely volume. They don't get enough work to even out the peaks and troughs, which results in big delays, and they can't afford the security that they ought to have for the value of merchandise they handle. My last visit involved meeting in the nearby car park, which wasn't especially good for customer satisfaction!

For me, the jury's still out, but if the market does move towards the US model then I might eventually be persuaded to get some of my collection entombed.

And welcome from me Bill. Highlighted is where the problems lie with CGS, along with the OP.......Customer service seems pretty shite. Then there was Stuart (Coinery) who mentioned his coin was already graded and had to wait ANOTHER 3 months to get his coin back which i personally find unacceptable. If the coin is graded/entombed and in the computer, then why does he have to wait on BULK coins before posting, he's paid his Tenner for the return, so why have it lying around?

These little bits are in my opinion what put people off CGS, hopefully you can report back with the points we're raising and it can only help to run a better service other than the negativity that some people have mention when phoning about their coins. I'm personally not a slab fan, however i will agree as Peck and Accumulator have, it's the best for UK coins and i've recently sent one if for grading and slabbing (this is for ebay though and not my own collection)

Edited by azda

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A bit of an anecdote, but for interest sake several years ago I got an example of each of the TPGs "work" of a particular issue: the 1935 specimen crown in NGC65, PCGS65 and CGS85. I'm going to challenge my skills if people are still interested by the weekend and picture them. Won't give away which I prefer so maybe a poll??

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Hi Bill,

I may not be the sharpest tool in the box, but I can assure you that I called the right number....especially when I said... "Is that CGS" and they said "Yes"

You say that they CGS dont discount because their prices are reasonable....the prices in my business are reasonable too. However, if a customer comes to me with a volume deal then I will be even more 'reasonable'.

The bloke that I spoke to when I asked if I could bring my coins to them quite catagorically said that their offices were'nt open to the general public.?...he spoke good English and my hearing is reasonably unimpaired.

Having said all that I fully appreciate that yours and other people experiences with CGS can and will be different to mine and I have no other end-to-end experience of any other TPGs from the point of view of using their services....(I have bought many slabbed coins though and have not had any real issues so far ).

It's just that personally I now wont be using the CGS service (especially when I read stories above about 'meeting in car parks..') and will be selling my collection via auction as is....which is mainly in the raw.

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A bit of an anecdote, but for interest sake several years ago I got an example of each of the TPGs "work" of a particular issue: the 1935 specimen crown in NGC65, PCGS65 and CGS85. I'm going to challenge my skills if people are still interested by the weekend and picture them. Won't give away which I prefer so maybe a poll??

Go for it, it will be interesting. Has the PCGS forum ate itself yet regarding the Morgans Rainbow toning? Lol

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At the risk of promoting Coin News (and my articles) I actually wrote at length in the piece "Even the experts can get it wrong! Coin Grading - trials and tribulations" in the November 2009 edition explaining how I (with the vast majority of coin collectors) loathed encapsulated coins (I started coin collecting in 1965....). I explained why I changed my mind - and I know others have had a similar change of opinion. But encapsulation is not for everyone.

CGS is not perfect and they know they are not perfect. However, they offer a reasonably priced service and I have yet to fault any grade (or rejection) they have done of coins I have submitted to them. I am aware that the odd description is wrong but I find that when bought to their attention they will correct it. If the description is wrong on the capsule they will arrange a new capsule. Sometimes I like the proposed values they place on coins I have successfully submitted and other times I feel the value does not reflect market conditions. Yet, they are the company guaranteeing the value they set in the event that the coin is proven to be 'wrong'. CGS is prepared to listen to a point of view about valuations and will amend prices if they receive reasonable suggestions with sustainable backing (like multiple auction results for the same type of coin).

I understand the suggestion about getting a coin graded and allowing it to be 'outside' of the capsule. The problem then is who can guarantee the coin will be kept in the same condition? I bought a halfpenny at auction that had been removed from a CGS capsule, put into a flip plastic folder with the original CGS label (something I used to do when I removed coins from slabs). It had originally graded as UNC80 but on re-submission to CGS it graded as AU78. (I have always said if I took CGS encapsulated coins out of their capsules and submitted them to CGS as 'raw' coins they would probably end up with comparable grades - something I know does not happen with some of the USA Grading companies.) I would not have been surprised if the grade was even lower as in AU75 or even EF70 - the coin was no longer in its capsule and had been subject, albeit minimal, movement. How could I expect it to be the same grade after removal from the capsule?

As said, I was not a lover of encapsulated coins (I loathed them) but my mind was changed. I still buy 'raw' coins but unless a stupidly low price I want to examine them before I do buy them. One of the things the CGS service has taught me is to better tell the difference between coin grades - but I am no expert - just better.

Bill Pugsley

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Is it only milled coins they do Bill, or do they also do hammered?

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A bit of an anecdote, but for interest sake several years ago I got an example of each of the TPGs "work" of a particular issue: the 1935 specimen crown in NGC65, PCGS65 and CGS85. I'm going to challenge my skills if people are still interested by the weekend and picture them. Won't give away which I prefer so maybe a poll??

Sounds interesting. It may be a challenge on the photography front though. Getting a decent impression of anything proof-like is difficult, but within a slab is even more tricky - but I wish you luck.

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A bit of an anecdote, but for interest sake several years ago I got an example of each of the TPGs "work" of a particular issue: the 1935 specimen crown in NGC65, PCGS65 and CGS85. I'm going to challenge my skills if people are still interested by the weekend and picture them. Won't give away which I prefer so maybe a poll??

Go for it, it will be interesting. Has the PCGS forum ate itself yet regarding the Morgans Rainbow toning? Lol

I would be delighted to see (as far as is practicable) the three coins graded by the three grading companies.

It is just possible that the PCGS MS65 will be better than the CGS UNC85 - but it would be a close run thing. As to the NGC MS65 - I refuse to comment.

Until recently I would buy PCGS coins sight unseen based upon their label but now I want to see the coin before I will complete a transaction (I came unstuck on three coins each graded MS65 by PCGS). I looked at ten NGC slabbed pennies (copper and bronze) at an auction last year and found verdigris on eight of them - so unless I can examine NGC coins I do not buy them either.

I do look for bargains on eBay and elsewhere for CGS graded coins and on occasions have paid more (sometimes much more) than the value suggested by CGS - either to fill a gap in my collection or the coin in my view was undervalued by CGS.

Based upon the comments I have seen about 'meeting in car parks', 'telephone manner (and apologies for suggesting you 'got the wrong number')' etc I can only say I have nothing but a positive opinion of CGS and its service. However, as the CGS forum is meeting this coming Saturday I will be taking the opportunity of raising these negative points with the attendees of the forum and soliciting opinion from CGS management.

Bill

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Hi Azda,

They must do hammered as well as I'm sure I bought some CGS slabbed ones in the past.

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Hi Bill,

No need to apologise about the telephone number thing ...it was true, but written here in a toungue-in-cheek style on my part...

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A bit of an anecdote, but for interest sake several years ago I got an example of each of the TPGs "work" of a particular issue: the 1935 specimen crown in NGC65, PCGS65 and CGS85. I'm going to challenge my skills if people are still interested by the weekend and picture them. Won't give away which I prefer so maybe a poll??

Go for it, it will be interesting. Has the PCGS forum ate itself yet regarding the Morgans Rainbow toning? Lol

I would be delighted to see (as far as is practicable) the three coins graded by the three grading companies.

It is just possible that the PCGS MS65 will be better than the CGS UNC85 - but it would be a close run thing. As to the NGC MS65 - I refuse to comment.

Until recently I would buy PCGS coins sight unseen based upon their label but now I want to see the coin before I will complete a transaction (I came unstuck on three coins each graded MS65 by PCGS). I looked at ten NGC slabbed pennies (copper and bronze) at an auction last year and found verdigris on eight of them - so unless I can examine NGC coins I do not buy them either.

I do look for bargains on eBay and elsewhere for CGS graded coins and on occasions have paid more (sometimes much more) than the value suggested by CGS - either to fill a gap in my collection or the coin in my view was undervalued by CGS.

Based upon the comments I have seen about 'meeting in car parks', 'telephone manner (and apologies for suggesting you 'got the wrong number')' etc I can only say I have nothing but a positive opinion of CGS and its service. However, as the CGS forum is meeting this coming Saturday I will be taking the opportunity of raising these negative points with the attendees of the forum and soliciting opinion from CGS management.

Bill

Thanking you for taking these points to the CGS forum. It would be really interesting to get their feedback. I do believe it's in all our interests that CGS, as the only UK supplier, prospers rather than losing the market to the big US TPGs.

On the issue of NGC. I viewed an MS64 slabbed penny last week and spotted the dreaded verdigris.

Edited by Accumulator

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