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1951 Threepence, Proof, Polished, Abused?

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

54innr.png

34yafx1.png

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

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I've just started collecting the G6 coins as a trust fund for my son! We figured the coins can mostly be bought at a reasonable sum, and would provide a reasonable return after 20-30+ years, hopefully, so I'll be following this one with interest! I'm not home at the moment - does DG's book clarify?

I should also add, it'll cheaply satisfy the collectomaniac in me! :)

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

54innr.png

34yafx1.png

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

The rare proof is Matte, so yours is most likely the regular one. CCGB 2 years ago was a bit conservative on the non-proof, £60 BU compared to £40 for proof. Yet Spink way back in 2005 had the proof at £40 also, but even back then, the non-proof was £75. Now it would be at least £100 I'm thinking.

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Hm, interesting. Well either way it seems like it was a pretty good find for 15 cents!

Yes, its certainly not a matte proof.

Its just interesting that it managed to wind up in the 15 cent bin, I searched around for the other denominations, thinking that perhaps an entire '51 set was dumped but never found any other '51 British coins. Picked out some BU Elizabeth II pennies in there too :P Along with some other 3d bits.

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

It looks to me like a proof with a tarnished obverse, but it's difficult to tell from the photo. You could try taking another photo with the light coming from a different angle.

Sadly, I don't think there are any die markings to differentiate proof and currency versions. I have a couple of 1950/1951 brass threepences that are roughly half way between proof and currency, but I put them down as proof because that is the more likely scenario.

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Hm, interesting. Well either way it seems like it was a pretty good find for 15 cents!

Yes, its certainly not a matte proof.

Its just interesting that it managed to wind up in the 15 cent bin, I searched around for the other denominations, thinking that perhaps an entire '51 set was dumped but never found any other '51 British coins. Picked out some BU Elizabeth II pennies in there too :P Along with some other 3d bits.

Yes, something of a coincidence - I got mine (almost BU) for 20p from the Midlands Fair in the late 90s. A bargain bin that was - let's say - "unsorted"!

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

54innr.png

34yafx1.png

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

The rare proof is Matte, so yours is most likely the regular one. CCGB 2 years ago was a bit conservative on the non-proof, £60 BU compared to £40 for proof. Yet Spink way back in 2005 had the proof at £40 also, but even back then, the non-proof was £75. Now it would be at least £100 I'm thinking.

Spink 2013 has the proof at £50 and currency at £150

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

54innr.png

34yafx1.png

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

The rare proof is Matte, so yours is most likely the regular one. CCGB 2 years ago was a bit conservative on the non-proof, £60 BU compared to £40 for proof. Yet Spink way back in 2005 had the proof at £40 also, but even back then, the non-proof was £75. Now it would be at least £100 I'm thinking.

Spink 2013 has the proof at £50 and currency at £150

Wow! That means the BU currency is significantly rarer than the 20,000 proofs, of which I'd guesstimate that between 10-15,000 still survive in more or less FDC condition.

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It's also true that most of the proofs are still in the original sets and therefore only available to commerce that way.

Prob only 2,000 - 3,000 sets have been broken up over the years

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Copper, just curious how you calculated the "consumption" rate?

I often wonder about survivial rates, and these are a bit hard to calculate IMO...

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Copper, just curious how you calculated the "consumption" rate?

I often wonder about survivial rates, and these are a bit hard to calculate IMO...

I was wondering the same thing. It would be like trying to work out how many 1953 plastic sets survive unbroken.

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I would guess that about 50% of 1953 plastic sets probably got broken up probably mostly before 1960

Most of the coins were then spent after the excitement of the coronation had passed.

It's only a guess but judging on all the circulated 1953 penny's u get probably a reasonable guess

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I wonder what true deman (whatever that means) is for proof or currency 1951 3ds. I like them but not many fans I would think...

Most '51 proof coins I have seen are still there in set form, but I can't be sure if it is representative of the whole extant population.

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probably it would be best for a potential buyer of the above 3d to make his own mind up if it is proof or currency- in the end the buyer decides.

Ebay the coin with virtually no complex details and it will find its own value.

Personally these coins (3d's) do little for me , I prefer the silver ones but I known others love them :D

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I would guess that about 50% of 1953 plastic sets probably got broken up probably mostly before 1960

Most of the coins were then spent after the excitement of the coronation had passed.

It's only a guess but judging on all the circulated 1953 penny's u get probably a reasonable guess

They are cheap as chips as are 1951 boxed crowns and 1970 proof sets.I have stocked up and they make good presents. :)

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probably it would be best for a potential buyer of the above 3d to make his own mind up if it is proof or currency- in the end the buyer decides.

Ebay the coin with virtually no complex details and it will find its own value.

Personally these coins (3d's) do little for me , I prefer the silver ones but I known others love them :D

I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

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So, today I was rummaging through the not-so-local coin dealer's 15 cent bin and I found this 1951 threepence. The reverse is mirror like, but the obverse is much flatter. Of course for all I know the obverse could have looked like the reverse once upon a time and it got dinged up by being literally buried under other coins. The problem is, I don't know if it is a proof issue, or just a nicely polished coin. It is:

54innr.png

34yafx1.png

Are there any good die markers to know if it is really a proof or not? And if it is a proof I'm assuming its a normal (and not a VIP) proof?

The edges are crisp, but not exactly knifelike.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

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I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

Absolutely, Peck, I've always liked them, and they are a nice starter collection for the budding numismatist. Not too many years (31), no complex varieties, but sufficient mix of common and rare/scarce in high grade, to make assembling the collection interesting. Plus two attractive designs.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

Brass threepences seem especially vulnerable to verdigris.

Edited by 1949threepence

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I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

Absolutely, Peck, I've always liked them, and they are a nice starter collection for the budding numismatist. Not too many years (31), no complex varieties, but sufficient mix of common and rare/scarce in high grade, to make assembling the collection interesting. Plus two attractive designs.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

Brass threepences seem especially vulnerable to verdigris.

So, as has been asked numerous times, I know, but what do you all do with your modern lustred brass and copper? Is an acetone rinse and an olive-oil smear a good or a bad thing? Has anyone ever kept these coins long-term this way?

Has anyone noticed any changes in appearance over a long period?

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So, as has been asked numerous times, I know, but what do you all do with your modern lustred brass and copper? Is an acetone rinse and an olive-oil smear a good or a bad thing? Has anyone ever kept these coins long-term this way?

Rennaisance Wax is favoured by collectors of ancients - anyone experimented on cheap modern coins? Don't think I'd risk it on a proof though

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I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

Absolutely, Peck, I've always liked them, and they are a nice starter collection for the budding numismatist. Not too many years (31), no complex varieties, but sufficient mix of common and rare/scarce in high grade, to make assembling the collection interesting. Plus two attractive designs.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

Brass threepences seem especially vulnerable to verdigris.

With four varieties of the 1937 currency plus two for the proof and a nickle flan. Three varieties for 1941 and two for both 1948 and 1949. Two varieties for 1953 plus proofs for 1950, 1951 and 1953, also 1970. Enough there to keep us variety hunter happy. :)

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I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

Absolutely, Peck, I've always liked them, and they are a nice starter collection for the budding numismatist. Not too many years (31), no complex varieties, but sufficient mix of common and rare/scarce in high grade, to make assembling the collection interesting. Plus two attractive designs.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

Brass threepences seem especially vulnerable to verdigris.

With four varieties of the 1937 currency plus two for the proof and a nickle flan. Three varieties for 1941 and two for both 1948 and 1949. Two varieties for 1953 plus proofs for 1950, 1951 and 1953, also 1970. Enough there to keep us variety hunter happy. :)

Sorry, when you're in the midst of a bun penny collection, the above seems quite limited in the variety department B)

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I do like 'em, I must admit. It's the only brass coin we've had, the only dodeca-sided coin, and a short run (1937 - 1967) with huge variation in mintages. Plus a mega-rare Eddie 8 pattern. What's not to like? :D

Absolutely, Peck, I've always liked them, and they are a nice starter collection for the budding numismatist. Not too many years (31), no complex varieties, but sufficient mix of common and rare/scarce in high grade, to make assembling the collection interesting. Plus two attractive designs.

Looks like the dreaded verdigris might have got to the obv legend, which, if it has, will massively devalue it as a proof specimen (its not a business strike in my opinion). £10 -15 tops.

Brass threepences seem especially vulnerable to verdigris.

Perhaps it is this very tendency to acquire atmospheric damage (of various sorts) that makes the brass 3d such a challenge to collect. If you want (virtually) tone-spot free examples then you will have your work cut out to find them even among the commoner years and varieties.

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