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sarah23

Starting a collection of Gold Sovereigns

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Hi,

Just wanted some advice, i'm thinking of starting a collection of Gold Sovereigns. I have been brought the new limited addition Gold Sovereign coin (http://www.royalmint.com/shop/a/a12) as a graduation gift and wondered if this was a good starting point?

I'm really new to this, but I think coins make a great idea for gifts and i'm really fascinated by everything I am reading. Is this a good place to start?

Thanks for any advise

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Hi,

Just wanted some advice, i'm thinking of starting a collection of Gold Sovereigns. I have been brought the new limited addition Gold Sovereign coin (http://www.royalmint.com/shop/a/a12) as a graduation gift and wondered if this was a good starting point?

I'm really new to this, but I think coins make a great idea for gifts and i'm really fascinated by everything I am reading. Is this a good place to start?

Thanks for any advise

Gold being at close to all time highs may not be the best time to start collecting sovereigns, but weighed against that is the fact that with some of the earlier dates now priced about bullion value, you should pick up coins in top grades for little over melt value. Some will always be high relative to the bullion price. Buying sovereigns from the Royal Mint is never a good idea as they are invariably priced way over melt, but are produced in such numbers that you would only be able to sell for bullion.

Coins on the whole do not make good gifts because a collector will have specific tastes which do not usually agree with those of the donor. The problem is usually compounded by the giver thinking they are giving a nice present from the likes of London Mint who sell overpriced tat. Do not buy from sellers like this to avoid the inevitable disappointment when you try to sell, and can't. If such purchases are genuine coins they will be overpriced and overgraded, if they are gold plated pennies for example, they are not collectable to the typical coin collector.

Edited by Rob

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Hi,

Just wanted some advice, i'm thinking of starting a collection of Gold Sovereigns. I have been brought the new limited addition Gold Sovereign coin (http://www.royalmint.com/shop/a/a12) as a graduation gift and wondered if this was a good starting point?

I'm really new to this, but I think coins make a great idea for gifts and i'm really fascinated by everything I am reading. Is this a good place to start?

Thanks for any advise

Rob has given some good advice. My own take on it is similar - don't buy from the Royal Mint as their special issues are vastly overpriced, aimed purely at making a profit for themselves. But if you are interested in sovereigns, there are some good 20th Century issues you can pick up from dealers at little more than bullion value. They won't be short-term investments (gold is very high, you'll be buying near the top of the market), but if you have an interest in them, and keep them, they will gradually appreciate in value as well as giving you pleasure in owning them.

If you begin your investment with the latest edition of Spink's "Coins of England" (it comes out annually), you will get an idea of the values of sovereigns for every reign. Even many Victorian sovs, if not in the top grades, can be got for near bullion value.

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Oh, I do hope you have a deep pocketbook. A new "Bentley" in the making? God help us - I once saw a purchase of 10 sovs for over 16k pounds that were nothing other than die state advancement.....

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Sovereigns present a significant and interesting challenge for collectors. They're historically important and when branch mint coins are included, can be quite complex. I have a few, but now wish I'd made a real effort 10-12 years ago when they were relatively affordable. Alas, the bullion price alone has pushed them out-of-reach for me. Unless you have deep pockets, I'd suggest a type set of EF-Unc coins bought as close to bullion value as possible.

Best Regards and Good Luck,

InforaPenny

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I think it would be quite easy to cherrypick sovereigns if you had the budget for it. The other day I was at a coin shop and they had a 1911 sovereign and I asked what the mintmark was on it and the owner's response was "they've got mintmarks on these things!?" turned out to be a Sydney mint and therefore not worth that much more than melt, but I can easily see most US coin/bullion dealers sticking all sovereigns regardless of condition/year (except for perhaps Victorian/Gregorian issues) in the scrap bin. I have little doubt that with quite a bit of searching and a good powered loupe you could quite possibly find a 1920-S sovereign selling for bullion in the US. Of course the situation is going to be different in the UK, but over here sovereigns (and half sovereigns) go for little premium over melt, especially when compared to the coins that are in demand, Krugerrands, gold eagles, maple leafs, etc.

Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

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Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

It would be if you don't tell 'em! :ph34r:

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective.

It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied.

Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules.

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

It would be if you don't tell 'em! :ph34r:

Does anyone know the CGT position? Are gold coins exempt and others not?

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Does anyone know the CGT position? Are gold coins exempt and others not?

Yes, but only if they are legal tender British coins. See above for the CGT position. :D

Edited by Accumulator

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That's encouraging. When I finally sell up to buy my little bit of land, I'll be doing it all at once, but in order of lowest value first, so that if there are any left over when I reach my target amount, they'll be the biggies.

It won't look like a collection, it'll just be a big string of singles going out on eBay, much like a million other sellers do every day.

Hopefully the Men in Black won't even notice.

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective.

It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied.

Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules.

Many thanks but, just to clarify, is that £10K TOTAL sales price, or £10K PROFIT? ie if you spent £10K on your collection and sold the whole thing for £20K, does this mean the whole £20K is a tax-free sum? Sorry Accumulator!!!!

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective.

It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied.

Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules.

Many thanks but, just to clarify, is that £10K TOTAL sales price, or £10K PROFIT? ie if you spent £10K on your collection and sold the whole thing for £20K, does this mean the whole £20K is a tax-free sum? Sorry Accumulator!!!!

The calculations are all done on the PROFIT. So if you purchased a coin for £10k and sold it for £20k, the profit of £10k is subject to tax (less any allowances).

I should say that the CGT allowance is actually £10,600 for the 2012/13 tax year, not the £10,000 figure I used above.

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective.

It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied.

Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules.

Many thanks but, just to clarify, is that £10K TOTAL sales price, or £10K PROFIT? ie if you spent £10K on your collection and sold the whole thing for £20K, does this mean the whole £20K is a tax-free sum? Sorry Accumulator!!!!

The calculations are all done on the PROFIT. So if you purchased a coin for £10k and sold it for £20k, the profit of £10k is subject to tax (less any allowances).

I should say that the CGT allowance is actually £10,600 for the 2012/13 tax year, not the £10,000 figure I used above.

Is this a magic loophole by any chance? If we say, for example, on April 6th get really excited about collecting G4 silver, and then by the end of June can't stand the monarch, can we sell the collection off and declare the profit under Capital Gains? Of, course, on April 6th the following year, we're about to have a love affair with Queen Mary (you will note I didn't say Anne)! ;)

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Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

I don't suppose the disposal of a valuable coin collection in the latter years would be tax-free, would it?

Legal tender British gold coins can be sold tax free. The sale of other coins has been discussed here in the past and is more complicated. If you have a number of disparate coins (i.e. not part of a set), these can be sold individually and CGT is only payable if any one of those sales produces a profit of £10,000 or more but, and this is the big BUT, if the coins form part of a 'collection' HMRC will assess the total of all the sales from that collection in any one year and only give a single allowance of £10,000 for everything. The definition of a 'collection' is subjective.

It may be that if you wished to sell, lets say, 6 very valuable crowns, 6 shillings and 6 pennies it would be better to sell a mix of denominations in each tax year to avoid the 'collection' definition. Selling all the crowns in one year, for example may be viewed as the sale of a collection for which only a single £10,000 allowance applies. Selling one crown, one shilling and one penny of different dates may be viewed as a sale of three separate coins for which a total allowance of £30,000 would be applied.

Please don't take this as any offer of advice! It's just my understanding of the present tax rules.

Many thanks but, just to clarify, is that £10K TOTAL sales price, or £10K PROFIT? ie if you spent £10K on your collection and sold the whole thing for £20K, does this mean the whole £20K is a tax-free sum? Sorry Accumulator!!!!

The calculations are all done on the PROFIT. So if you purchased a coin for £10k and sold it for £20k, the profit of £10k is subject to tax (less any allowances).

I should say that the CGT allowance is actually £10,600 for the 2012/13 tax year, not the £10,000 figure I used above.

Is this a magic loophole by any chance? If we say, for example, on April 6th get really excited about collecting G4 silver, and then by the end of June can't stand the monarch, can we sell the collection off and declare the profit under Capital Gains? Of, course, on April 6th the following year, we're about to have a love affair with Queen Mary (you will note I didn't say Anne)! ;)

It's not that simple. If you start buying and selling on a regular basis you will be assessed as a trader and will be taxed on your trading profit. This is a different area of taxation to CGT and is the one that regular eBay traders can be liable for. The revenue don't make it that easy! :D

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The revenue don't make it that easy! :D

:( Thanks for going through that with me! :)

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Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

Excellent commonsense, Rob.

Rob and Peckris have covered most aspects of sovereign collecting, except for one specific point. An advantage of sovereigns (over gold bullion or many other assets, such as shares) is that they can be sold free of capital gains tax (CGT). CGT is normally paid on any sales that result in a profit (not sales value) of more than £10,000 in any one tax year. So if you do put some of your hard earned graduate salary into gold sovereigns, and they appreciate substantially in value over the years, they could make a nice tax-free pension pot for you to dip into!

Or a way to repay the student loan!

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The tax man doesn't go after small fish....although I closed my company to get them off my back(Accountants advice)

I have bought coins/antiques for my pension after taking a 40% hit in 2008.

Beware we are heading for melt down.Currently you can take 25% of your pension pot tax free.I'm not entitled to retire at 65 anymore.Why hasn't anyone made a fuss about this?

I have paid NI and tax all my life and recently have being paid corperation tax of between 10k to 15k per annum.I now have a second property an allotment and no debts....but 2 expensive daughters and Mrs Peter isn't cheap...well we all have a price. B)

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Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts!

  • I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have!
  • I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend
  • I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options
  • My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver!

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Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts!

  • I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have!
  • I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend
  • I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options
  • My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver!

Possibly unanswerable. Here's some Spink data comparing 2000 and 2005 (before the huge bullion increases of course):

1911M to 1918M : 2000 £75 ... 2005 £85 each

1929M : 2000 VF £500 EF £1750 ... 2005 VF £900 EF £1400

1930M : 2000 VF £95 EF £175 ... 2005 VF £95 EF £120

1931M : 2000 VF £150 EF £300 ... 2005 VF £200 EF £250

As you can see, the BV increased by around 15% in 5 years, but the coin values don't match up at all. Generally the VF prices range from static to much higher, while the EF prices are all lower. I'm sure if I picked a different series, the results would be different again.

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Of course, with the bullion value alone of a sovereign over $400 right now, it certainly won't be the cheapest coin series to collect!

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

I am finding this thread very interesting and would like to make some points and add some questions for our undoubted experts!

  • I am not remotely worried about the CGT on coins as I don't expect ever to make over £10,000 profit on a single coin ... if I ever did I would be delighted and I am sure would get away with not declaring it! - a nice problem to have!
  • I have not yet regarded coins as an investment and have been careful to distinguish collecting/the hobby decisions from investment decisions, as all the best advice would recommend
  • I would seriously consider investing in gold and silver coins if and when the price of such precious metals fell back to their pre 2009 prices, as I would confidently expect to make a good (tax-free) return on them in the medium to long term, expecting them to occasionally return to current levels sometime in the next 10 years, and if not, to certainly beat other (taxable) investment options
  • My question is - if you invest in gold and/or silver coins that are priced at/worth say 1.5-2X bullion value (sovereigns are a prime example), how much are they affected by fluctuations in the bullion price? For example, buy a sovereign for £500/$800 now, assuming that is the going rate for that date/rarity/condition, and the bullion price of gold halves to $860, what might be the effect on the value of that coin? Is there an inherent content value built in for coins that have significant precious metal content, but are collectable beyond their metal content? I hope the question makes sense, it is the same question for pre 1947 silver!

Possibly unanswerable. Here's some Spink data comparing 2000 and 2005 (before the huge bullion increases of course):

1911M to 1918M : 2000 £75 ... 2005 £85 each

1929M : 2000 VF £500 EF £1750 ... 2005 VF £900 EF £1400

1930M : 2000 VF £95 EF £175 ... 2005 VF £95 EF £120

1931M : 2000 VF £150 EF £300 ... 2005 VF £200 EF £250

As you can see, the BV increased by around 15% in 5 years, but the coin values don't match up at all. Generally the VF prices range from static to much higher, while the EF prices are all lower. I'm sure if I picked a different series, the results would be different again.

Despite these catalogue figures, I think it's fair to assume that the BV element of any sovereign's value will always track the gold index and the residual will vary according to the market demand from coin collectors (not bullion investors). There is a HUGE market for pure bullion sovereigns, which are bought by their hundreds and thousands by investors who never even look at their coins. Essentially all but the rarer dates in VF or below are bullion. Just look at the mintage figures and you can see what's out there, squirrelled away in safety deposit boxes and the like.

In answer to your question, the further above bullion you buy at, the more the risk switches from a gold price one to a coin market one. You take your choice.

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Talking about Spink's (and other price guides), as the price of gold is so volatile, any guide is pretty much useless once it is on the booksellers' shelves. Can anybody think of a serious objection to publishing prices as 'BV' or 'BV+' if it has some numismatic value?

Apologies if I've posted this before, but my memory isn't what it was...

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