A nice tone on copper and what it's worth

[azda 973]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

I have been pleased so far with my first few purchases from Michael, most of which I saw 'in the flesh' at his shop ... I think you are a strict grader which is a good thing, but I have yet to buy from you! Here is my first purchase from Michael which perhaps colours my judgement!:

Described as nVF and £210, which I thought was an extremely good buy ... other members' opinions may differ! I did visit him recently and he was upping his prices, stating that he could no longer buy the same coins in the same grades for what he was selling them for. And I have yet to/may not ever get into copper/bronze, which is undoubtedly a different area of expertise! Only going by personal experience of course, have been happy with John Newman lately (as I read so have others), while I feel Colin Cooke, Bucks Coins and INGRAM offerings are consistently over-graded and/or overpriced ... also noting that more and more 'bricks and mortar' / traditional dealers are listing on the Bay!

Well i'd agree with everything you said in your post, maybe where buyers are maybe forgetting that coins are getting more expensive, especially in high grades. Nice Crown to, and Michaels take on higher prices are probably correct, he's a lot more to pay than me. I do a bit of buying and selling as a bit of fun, others do it as a living, they have more overheads. Ingrams, Buckcoins (which i've already proved on the forum has upped grades on purchases) plus CC in my opinion certainly do overgrade. Its a tough world out there, for a dealer to buy a coin at what he regards at overprice he then has to add a half grade/grade in order to make money (does'nt apply to everyone) You as a buyer have to decide if the grade is correct, and even if you think it is, does'nt mean the seller will accept an offer.

Its certainly a tough world in the coin world right now, lots to consider, and homework to do.....................

[Peckris 579]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

I have been pleased so far with my first few purchases from Michael, most of which I saw 'in the flesh' at his shop ... I think you are a strict grader which is a good thing, but I have yet to buy from you! Here is my first purchase from Michael which perhaps colours my judgement!:

Described as nVF and £210, which I thought was an extremely good buy ... other members' opinions may differ! I did visit him recently and he was upping his prices, stating that he could no longer buy the same coins in the same grades for what he was selling them for. And I have yet to/may not ever get into copper/bronze, which is undoubtedly a different area of expertise! Only going by personal experience of course, have been happy with John Newman lately (as I read so have others), while I feel Colin Cooke, Bucks Coins and INGRAM offerings are consistently over-graded and/or overpriced ... also noting that more and more 'bricks and mortar' / traditional dealers are listing on the Bay!

Hmm. In that case I shall have to re-grade my Charles II crown, as I've always had it as GF. The reverse is about the same as yours, but I'd say the obverse was a bit better (though later obverse of course).

[Accumulator 52]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's only slightly better than mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Edited September 19, 2012 by Accumulator

[azda 973]

Thanks for the many posts and opinions you all have given .

I must say as well that the 1851 farthing in GVF also has the destinction of not one edge knock and this is quite unusual for early copper, in fact the edge is superb.

Charles II Crowns are notorious for poor hair detail. I'd give that a NVF.

[Coinery 926]

while I feel Colin Cooke, Bucks Coins and INGRAM offerings are consistently over-graded and/or overpriced ...

Buckcoins (which i've already proved on the forum has upped grades on purchases).

I'm looking forward to meeting the young Buck at a coin auction, if only to give him the look of displeasure I feel for him.

I bought a £200+ coin from him recently that failed to materialise! I politely wrote him emails...not a single civilised response.

I've been sorely tempted to transcribe our entire communications, just so people can see for themselves what an unreasonable man he is!

I've failed to win (so effectively bid up) probably a hundred or more of his coins, and that's worth a huge sum to him alone, not to mention the £1000's I'd already spent with him!

What a complete...

[azda 973]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

I have been pleased so far with my first few purchases from Michael, most of which I saw 'in the flesh' at his shop ... I think you are a strict grader which is a good thing, but I have yet to buy from you! Here is my first purchase from Michael which perhaps colours my judgement!:

Described as nVF and £210, which I thought was an extremely good buy ... other members' opinions may differ! I did visit him recently and he was upping his prices, stating that he could no longer buy the same coins in the same grades for what he was selling them for. And I have yet to/may not ever get into copper/bronze, which is undoubtedly a different area of expertise! Only going by personal experience of course, have been happy with John Newman lately (as I read so have others), while I feel Colin Cooke, Bucks Coins and INGRAM offerings are consistently over-graded and/or overpriced ... also noting that more and more 'bricks and mortar' / traditional dealers are listing on the Bay!

Hmm. In that case I shall have to re-grade my Charles II crown, as I've always had it as GF. The reverse is about the same as yours, but I'd say the obverse was a bit better (though later obverse of course).

Yours has more wear Peck than Pauls, more wear to the face, nose etc. I'd still say Pauls was NVF...........As always, only my opinion, a picture of the 2 coins in the flesh would be good

Edited September 19, 2012 by azda

[Peckris 579]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book.

[azda 973]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's only slightly better than mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Well you obviously missed mine for a few bucks Stephen

[Accumulator 52]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book.

Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it.

[Accumulator 52]

Well you obviously missed mine for a few bucks Stephen

Actually I may be wrong, Dave, but I think I looked at yours and didn't think the difference was worth the upgrade? Not knocking yours, but I probably decided to hold out for a really good example.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Accumulator

[azda 973]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book.

Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it.

There's to much wear to Britannias hand, legs, breast palte and helmet for me..........Obv, face and hair detail is to worn for an EF coin

[Accumulator 52]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book.

Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it.

There's to much wear to Britannias hand, legs, breast palte and helmet for me..........Obv, face and hair detail is to worn for an EF coin

I completely agree. Hence my VF grade.

[azda 973]

Colin wouldn't even try to sell that crap.

Its maybe a sign of the times that good coins are harder to come by.........I'm not a huge fan of CC as i bought about 4 and sent 1 back from the 4........They were obviously at one time a bigger dealer than they are now. Poor grading will always come back to haunt anyone, good grading will only enhance a reputation and repeat business

Couldn't agree more Dave, my favourite dealers for accurate grading are our very own Rob and Michael Gouby, I have had issues with many well known others!

Problem being Paul, that good coins will cost top end and perhaps where copper123 is not prepared to go, you have to decide eventually. Mr Gouby has an 1875H penny which i have an issue with his grading on, I had a much better one but he's grading his as EF, in my mind it's no chance in hell as being EF. His price 750 quid, i sold mine to a forum member for 400

Just looked at Michael's 1875H. It's about the same as mine which I wouldn't rate better than VF. I'm looking for an upgrade if I can find one. For comparison, here's mine:

Interesting. That is what Michael illustrates as VF in the original edition of his "Bronze Penny" book.

Yes, much the same as his latest edition. It might just make VF+ though, as the wear is marginally less, but there's not much in it.

There's to much wear to Britannias hand, legs, breast palte and helmet for me..........Obv, face and hair detail is to worn for an EF coin

I completely agree. Hence my VF grade.

Lucidio_8 is selling an 1826 Stephen, take a look.............Selling as UNC i think....., not as nice as your newbie

[Accumulator 52]

Lucidio_8 is selling an 1826 Stephen, take a look.............Selling as UNC i think....., not as nice as your newbie

That's not even as good as the one I upgraded from Dave! There again, he describes it as 'Top Grade', which I suppose could equate to EF. I wouldn't really argue with a description that vague.

[azda 973]

'Top Grade i'd take as UNC as UNC is top grade?It's a good grade though

Edited September 19, 2012 by azda

[copper123 1,352]

I must admit to scratching my head and just wondering how cc coins have the cheak to grade that 1732 as fine , yes it is a scarcer george II date but Fine? LOL

I must say the 1744 farthing at £30 (1744) make much more appeal IMHO , a really bitch of a date to find and the coin is attractive with no problems

[Peckris 579]

I must admit to scratching my head and just wondering how cc coins have the cheak to grade that 1732 as fine , yes it is a scarcer george II date but Fine? LOL

I must say the 1744 farthing at £30 (1744) make much more appeal IMHO , a really bitch of a date to find and the coin is attractive with no problems

I'd say CC use "Fine" to cover everything from AF down to AFair. Shame really, as they sell some good stuff otherwise.

[azda 973]

I think sometimes people forget that there is grades under Finw, they certainly do in Germany, looks like its catching