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Nick

Mint bags or mint rolls

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At what point in the coin production process were the newly minted coins bagged up or placed into rolls?

If it happened just after the minting process, then it is reasonable to assume that all of the coins in any one bag are the same variety. But, if the coins were stored for a time before they were bagged then it's feasible that different varieties could be mixed together. Anybody know the answer?

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At what point in the coin production process were the newly minted coins bagged up or placed into rolls?

If it happened just after the minting process, then it is reasonable to assume that all of the coins in any one bag are the same variety. But, if the coins were stored for a time before they were bagged then it's feasible that different varieties could be mixed together. Anybody know the answer?

I would guess it was done just after minting. I say that from the evidence of a W&W lot in the 90s that featured many UNC coins from the 1950s, in large multiples for each date, and clearly taken from mint bags - the 1957 halfpennies were all 'calm sea', about 30 or 40 of them, the most I've ever seen in one place.

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then it is reasonable to assume that all of the coins in any one bag are the same variety.

This would be true if you only have one press producing the coins and one rolling/bagging machine.

Usually, when the mint is ready to produce large quantities of coins, they install the working dies in the presses. Now, if one working die has some damage or has been reworked and creating a variety, was used for a press say out of 10, then 10% of the coins would be of a different variety. Then, all the coins are sent to mamy bagging machines, making it possible that some bags have more variety coins then others.

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Interestingly, back in May last year, I bought a group of six EF-ish 1944 pennies from Canada in the hope that one might be the supposedly scarcer recut waves version being discussed elsewhere.

They all were.

I wondered aloud at the time if there might be a geographical element to the distribution of varieties - in the same sense as the last years of the silver 3d being sent to the West Indies. I think we concluded "maybe".

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then it is reasonable to assume that all of the coins in any one bag are the same variety.

This would be true if you only have one press producing the coins and one rolling/bagging machine.

Usually, when the mint is ready to produce large quantities of coins, they install the working dies in the presses. Now, if one working die has some damage or has been reworked and creating a variety, was used for a press say out of 10, then 10% of the coins would be of a different variety. Then, all the coins are sent to mamy bagging machines, making it possible that some bags have more variety coins then others.

I hadn't really considered the number of presses in operation at one time, but I guess it depends whether the separate press outputs were combined before being fed into the bagging machine, or whether they were fed in serially.

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and of course the possibility of the production run coming to an end and the presses dies changed to a different denomination.........so maybe 2 presses running, 1 with good dies and 1 with the variety dies......up goes youre number of the variety coin......maybe :)

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I hadn't really considered the number of presses in operation at one time, but I guess it depends whether the separate press outputs were combined before being fed into the bagging machine, or whether they were fed in serially.

Here is a slide show that you might find interesting.

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_tours/?action=vtShell

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I hadn't really considered the number of presses in operation at one time, but I guess it depends whether the separate press outputs were combined before being fed into the bagging machine, or whether they were fed in serially.

Here is a slide show that you might find interesting.

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_tours/?action=vtShell

Fascinating - thanks for that. For me, the most interesting part was how 'rough' the planchet looked after the rimming process and before being impressed with the design. Which proves that all the lustre comes from the die / strike and none from the planchet itself.

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I'd have to say that chances are that most of the coins in a mint bag should be of the same variety. However, at least in the US, banks don't get coins directly from the mint, rather they use a supplier that buys the coins from the mint (usually an armored car company such as Brinks or Dunbar) and then mixes the bags together to fill rolls and boxes. This does mean that its quite possible to get solid boxes/rolls of a single year (and mint) but you aren't guaranteed by any stretch to get the same variety because most likely multiple bags are being mixed in. However, geography does play a bit in finding rare varieties, as evidenced by certain coins that were once concentrated in a single area. For example I think nearly all examples of the 1955 doubled die cent were found in and around New England and especially in cigarette vending machines.

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I'd have to say that chances are that most of the coins in a mint bag should be of the same variety. However, at least in the US, banks don't get coins directly from the mint, rather they use a supplier that buys the coins from the mint (usually an armored car company such as Brinks or Dunbar) and then mixes the bags together to fill rolls and boxes. This does mean that its quite possible to get solid boxes/rolls of a single year (and mint) but you aren't guaranteed by any stretch to get the same variety because most likely multiple bags are being mixed in. However, geography does play a bit in finding rare varieties, as evidenced by certain coins that were once concentrated in a single area. For example I think nearly all examples of the 1955 doubled die cent were found in and around New England and especially in cigarette vending machines.

How on earth does the 'middle man' make any kind of profit? Considering the banks wouldn't be paying more than face value for coins they are handing over to the public at face value.

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Curiously RCM(Royal Canadian Mint) sent their cents out in $60 bags in the 1960s because I have a 1963 dated bag that held cents that I use to transport coins in betwixt banks. I have several older bags that I still use occasionally for various projects, the oldest is a North of Scotland bag that was used for halfcrowns.

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I'd have to say that chances are that most of the coins in a mint bag should be of the same variety. However, at least in the US, banks don't get coins directly from the mint, rather they use a supplier that buys the coins from the mint (usually an armored car company such as Brinks or Dunbar) and then mixes the bags together to fill rolls and boxes. This does mean that its quite possible to get solid boxes/rolls of a single year (and mint) but you aren't guaranteed by any stretch to get the same variety because most likely multiple bags are being mixed in. However, geography does play a bit in finding rare varieties, as evidenced by certain coins that were once concentrated in a single area. For example I think nearly all examples of the 1955 doubled die cent were found in and around New England and especially in cigarette vending machines.

How on earth does the 'middle man' make any kind of profit? Considering the banks wouldn't be paying more than face value for coins they are handing over to the public at face value.

They charge the bank fees to drop off coin and to pick it up, so in essence the bank does pay more than face value for most of the coins, but since over here unless you're a collector or a business the chances of you getting boxes and boxes of coin at a time are slim and so its worth the few extra bucks to the bank because they make that money back fairly easily.

Different banks in different areas might do things differently, but around here:

1) The bank orders the boxes and pays a small fee per box (boxes are $25 in cents, $100 in nickels, $250 in dimes, $500 in quarters, $500 in halves and I think $1000 in dollars but everyone hates the dollar coin so boxes rarely get ordered)

2) The bank gives out the boxes (at FV) to businesses/some collectors or breaks open the rolls and sells them or gives back a few coins in change

3) When customers bring in loose coin it is ran through a machine that separates the denomination and then puts it in bags (the bags are different depending on the bank but are usually like $50 in cents, $100 in nickels, $500 in dimes, $500 in quarters, $1000 in halves) these bags are then taken by the coin supply company (for a fee) and then ran through their machines, credit the bank's account and then are used later to roll and box up coins.

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