Idiots collecting Freeman numbers

[argentumandcoins 70]

Dear All,

If the following offends you I do apologise but following on from a question I received about a Rarity 3 1956 halfpenny I have on ebay these are the last 2 messages.

The original question was along the lines of "is your price a typo? (£45 was the BIN price). I responded very politely that it wasn't and that I had sold a rarity 12 1956 (I said R14 in my reply) in nearly VF for £125 several years ago (the buyer is a forum member).

Anyway, here goes (BUT PLEASE READ THE BOTTOM MESSAGE FIRST);

Dear new_world_numismatics,

Mike, you are obviously a high-end dealer in choice coins, probably ex Goldberg, CNG or Heritage?

I greatly value your opinion and knowledge of British numismatics but would be obliged if you would refrain from further contact as I do not think my pathetic business is worthy of your attention.

Thank you for your choice words of wisdom which I will share with all of the users of the GB coin forums (some of whom are in the States and collect GB bronze by Freeman numbers), in the hope that they too will benefit from your knowledge and experience.

I will also email Michael Freeman and tell him how disgusted you are that his work is not of the same standard as Breen et al and I will contact the major UK auction houses and tell them to desist from using his numbers forthwith as the man is obviously an idiot.

- john8150_0

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From: new_world_numismatics

To: john8150_0

Subject: Re: Other: new_world_numismatics sent a message about 1956 Halfpenny, F475, Rarity 3, VF. #350471069974

Sent Date: 08-Jul-12 16:18:42 BST

Dear john8150_0,

Hello again, thanks for getting back to me. I guess my question then is this: if I do go through my buckets and find any such varieties, would you be a buyer? Otherwise it would not be worth my time as no one on this side of the pond collects such "varieties," nor even acknowledges there existence... I am familiar with Freeman's work but have never agreed with him on much. Nor do serious numismatists, as is evident by the fact that he had to self publish for decades because no one would publish his work, and he still is not recognized by numismatics-based publications today. Please consider that on a modern coin with a mintage over 20 million, that there are bound to be numerous die varieties, potentially dozens and dozens, none of which would necessarily be rarer than any other. Even if so, the population of such a "rarity" would still potentially be in the millions for such a "rarity," which would not even make a "R" scale for any other type of coins, ranging from ancients to 2012 dated coins. (also his rarity scale is backwards from established numismatic numeric ranking systems which further compromises his credibility). Honestly, I would never recommend Freeman's work to any serious numismatist for fear of being mocked as an amateur. And anyway, the fact that you've only sold one in (at least) the last 6 years kind of confirms this. Anyway, good luck and I'll let you know if I come up with any "rarities" for you! Regards, Mike

P.S. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: you may be more of an "Ebay Imbecile" than you think... Simply reading your listing was somewhat confusing and offensive, as you aggressively attack any of your potential buyers before they even become one, and on top of that, you offer nothing but garbage in your listings, whilst proclaiming on your website that you only deal only in "rarities" and "high grade items." Please stop wasting our time!

- new_world_numismatics

Edited July 8, 2012 by argentumandcoins

[HistoricCoinage 115]

John, ignore him. It's not worth your time.

[azda 973]

Lmfao. Whar a dickhead, sometimes with people like this i wish i could pull them through the monitor and beat them

Ever so hard.

[Rob 2,996]

At least he knows how to grade. Apart from £14 from change offered for exchange, the only other British thing listed recently was in that euphemistic eBay standard -'nice' grade, i.e. somewhere between legible crap and illegible crap. It would help if he was arguing from a position of strength.

[Mongo 1]

One word comes to mind.... $%^"£!

This guy obviously has nothing better to do, judging by the length of the message he felt compelled to write. I think he needs to do these things to make himself feel special.

Let it go over your head, John. He is not worth your valuable time!

[Coinery 926]

Dragging his response onto the forums is as nasty as you can get...PERFECT!

He obviously has a lot of time on his hands! I'm surprised he hasn't written his own papers and published with the BNJ by now!

[AardHawk 73]

Just out of interest, which Freeman number was it?

[pies 33]

As they say " never argue with an idiot,they will bring you down to there level then beat you on experience"

[Rob 2,996]

Lmfao. Whar a dickhead, sometimes with people like this i wish i could pull them through the monitor and beat them

Ever so hard.

Glasgow has firmly established trading links with Dundee then, Dave?

[RLC35 288]

John,

Who is this hardhat? He doesn't respect Michael Freeman?...does he respect the American Numismatic Association? After the publishing of Michael's Variety Book, he was asked to speak before the largest Numismatic group in The USA (ANA), about his valuable work on British Bronze coinage!

As for there being no variety collectors in the USA...he is completely upside down on that one! There is a very large collector base her in the USA for British Coins (and varieties), as about 50% of our ancesters migrated to the USA from the British Isles!

[Gary D 76]

John,

Who is this hardhat? He doesn't respect Michael Freeman?...does he respect the American Numismatic Association? After the publishing of Michael's Variety Book, he was asked to speak before the largest Numismatic group in The USA (ANA), about his valuable work on British Bronze coinage!

As for there being no variety collectors in the USA...he is completely upside down on that one! There is a very large collector base her in the USA for British Coins (and varieties), as about 50% of our ancesters migrated to the USA from the British Isles!

Slab it then triple the price, he'll be gagging for it then.

[Accumulator 52]

John,

Who is this hardhat? He doesn't respect Michael Freeman?...does he respect the American Numismatic Association? After the publishing of Michael's Variety Book, he was asked to speak before the largest Numismatic group in The USA (ANA), about his valuable work on British Bronze coinage!

As for there being no variety collectors in the USA...he is completely upside down on that one! There is a very large collector base her in the USA for British Coins (and varieties), as about 50% of our ancesters migrated to the USA from the British Isles!

Slab it then triple the price, he'll be gagging for it then.

Don't forget to rainbow tone it first!

As you say John, his sales (viewed from his feedback listings) firmly back up his high-end operator status. With an average sale value around the $10 mark he must have handled numerous Freeman numbered bun head varieties in collectable grade.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Accumulator

[Debbie 58]

What a nasty little man! There was no need for that PS.....

I notice that HE doesn't sell to the UK!

[niyuco 0]

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From: new_world_numismatics

To: john8150_0

Subject: Re: Other: new_world_numismatics sent a message about 1956 Halfpenny, F475, Rarity 3, VF. #350471069974

Sent Date: 08-Jul-12 16:18:42 BST

Dear john8150_0,

Hello again, thanks for getting back to me. I guess my question then is this: if I do go through my buckets and find any such varieties, would you be a buyer? Otherwise it would not be worth my time as no one on this side of the pond collects such "varieties," nor even acknowledges there existence... I am familiar with Freeman's work but have never agreed with him on much. Nor do serious numismatists, as is evident by the fact that he had to self publish for decades because no one would publish his work, and he still is not recognized by numismatics-based publications today. Please consider that on a modern coin with a mintage over 20 million,<flush>

What a loon. One more for the blocklist.

Never understood why people on Ebay send messages like this. Don't like a coin/listing/seller? Then don't buy.

[scott 129]

thing that annoys me is when i look at US systems for varieties, and find they count things that are errors or tiny blamishes as such.

[Descartes 148]

What a rude and truculent man! What has he done for the numismatic world that is so fantastic that he can undermine Micheal Freeman's work.

[davidrj 194]

Never understood why people on Ebay send messages like this. Don't like a coin/listing/seller? Then don't buy.

Sometimes folk can be helpful!

I recently wanted to get rid of a sideboard from my late mother-in-law's house so i put it on Ebay at £4.99 start - buyer collect - it was very heavy and far to big for our house

A very helpful lady messaged me to say it was a trendy bit of 1960's Danish designer furniture. I relisted it with the description she sent me at a starting price of £199, and it went for £286

there are good guys out there

David

[Generic Lad 25]

So, not yet having a copy of Freeman (waiting to get some Amazon gift cards/vouchers) how can you tell it is a rarer variety? Is it the left ~ because it looks like it is doubled (or tripled)?

[bagerap 706]

So, I'm not the only one having a bad day at the office with fleabay onanists.

[1949threepence 3,366]

Just a trash talking troll trying to elicit an angry response.

Best ignored, John.

[scott 129]

there are good peole.

i bet this guy saw it, knew EXACTLY what it was and wanted to blag it on the cheap themselves.

[Peckris 579]

Will the forum member who sold me a 1956 rare variety halfpenny for £20, please examine your conscience and return my money to me? Yes, I know I said I wanted one, but did you have to take advantage of me? Couldn't you see I am an imbecile? Grrrrrr.

New World Numismatics, hmm. I wonder which 'new world' he represents.. could it be the one that is supported by 4 giant elephants standing on the back of a giant turtle swimming through space...?

Anyone want to buy a first edition copy of Freeman, clearly a self-published piece of rubbish not worth the paper it's printed on.

[scott 129]

sure, will a 1967 penny buy it?

[declanwmagee 122]

So, not yet having a copy of Freeman (waiting to get some Amazon gift cards/vouchers) how can you tell it is a rarer variety? Is it the left ~ because it looks like it is doubled (or tripled)?

It's a crossover mule - two obverses, two reverses, so 4 possible combinations. Pointings are the quickest and easiest indicators:

Obv 3, Rev C, F.471, C10, I of DEI nearly at a bead, L of HALF between beads

Obv 3, Rev D, F.473, R5, I of DEI nearly at a bead, L of HALF at a bead

Obv 4, Rev C, F.474, R12, I of DEI between beads, L of HALF between beads

Obv 4, Rev D, F.475, R3, I of DEI between beads, L of HALF at a bead

[Coinery 926]

So, not yet having a copy of Freeman (waiting to get some Amazon gift cards/vouchers) how can you tell it is a rarer variety? Is it the left ~ because it looks like it is doubled (or tripled)?

It's a crossover mule - two obverses, two reverses, so 4 possible combinations. Pointings are the quickest and easiest indicators:

Obv 3, Rev C, F.471, C10, I of DEI nearly at a bead, L of HALF between beads

Obv 3, Rev D, F.473, R5, I of DEI nearly at a bead, L of HALF at a bead

Obv 4, Rev C, F.474, R12, I of DEI between beads, L of HALF between beads

Obv 4, Rev D, F.475, R3, I of DEI between beads, L of HALF at a bead

Now I'm confused, perhaps I should read the entire thread, but are these not 4 different obverses then? I've only just woke up so could be having a senile moment!