Early Milled Coinage

[Chris Perkins 223]

You have a wild imagination there Sylvester, that's good.

Numismatics needs people like you!

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

You have a wild imagination there Sylvester, that's good.

Numismatics needs people like you!

Chris

Some people would say i'm mad (and some indeed have said this), i just say i'm imaginative...

Sylvester...

Bringing Numismatics alive...

[Chris Perkins 223]

Sylvester,

You interested in a 1745 LIMA, plain angles sixpence. I have one here that's had a small silver ring welded to the top (for the blind people in 1745 ) but I imagine that could be removed and leave little trace.

The grade isn't all that fab but I couldn't remember if you needed this one?

Chris

www.predecimal.com

[Guest Eliza]

Hi Sylvester and Chris,

Guilty as charged! I'll have to go looking for Fry fivvers and "tiddly 5ps," and into the bargain, I have to apologize: I gave you the wrong bib info. Go back to Abebooks and try this:

Mackay, James

A History of Modern English Coinage : Henry VII to Elizabeth II

London and New York : Longman, 1984

ISBN 0-582-50311-6

I'm going to try a search right now and see if I can find the hits I found yesterday. I've been out shopping ... picked up this Pink Floyd cd that was rumoured to be pretty good ...

Eliza

[Chris Perkins 223]

Bonjour,

You'll love it, and good to see a 'U' Rumoured!

Chris

[Guest Eliza]

Yes good Sirs, the book is there.

Bianco Library, Horsham, SXW; Jeff Taylor/The Bookshelf, Blackburn; and for Chris, there's one being sold from Kepler-Antiquariat, Weil-der-Stadt, BW De.

I'm mortified by switching "British" for "English" in the title. Before I go lash myself in contrition, let me say to Sylvester: this new history of the Tower Mint may be the "missing link" for silver mintage figures! If you can't find a copy yourself, I am willing to photocopy the pertinent pages and MAIL them to you.

Chris, I'm still considering that half-crown.

Eliza

[Guest Eliza]

Bonjour! Ca va bien? I do o.k. by spellink da engleesh o.k.?

I have a 1757 6d with a "Braille" hole expertly repaired. I'm sure it was a jewelry piece at some point. I love that coin. You never know the stories, which is a pity.

Gotta go. My best to you all!

Eliza

[Sylvester 15]

Sylvester,

You interested in a 1745 LIMA, plain angles sixpence. I have one here that's had a small silver ring welded to the top (for the blind people in 1745 ) but I imagine that could be removed and leave little trace.

The grade isn't all that fab but I couldn't remember if you needed this one?

Chris

www.predecimal.com

Chris, thanks for making me the offer on the coin. The truth is i do need it...but, i am attempting to find as many of them in as higher grade as possible. The George II stuff should mostly be about EF- and upwards, (except for the rarer stuff like that 1746 Proof). I haven't come across any UNC ones yet though.

Coins in the following grades are really what i'm looking for (but it takes me a while to save up for them)...

*George II EF- or higher,

*George I VF+ or higher (where possible, i would settle for a good VF though),

*Anne VF+ or higher preferably AEF,

*William III AEF+,

*William and Mary i only need the 1693 (upside down 3) and 1694, AVF-VF+ is about the grade i could afford, roughly AVF on the '94 one.

*James II AVF-GVF,

*Charles II VF-VF+.

(I really appreciate the workmanship of these coins and the higher the grade the more detail to appreciate!)

But some coins may have to be ever so slightly lower depending on what's available, but no mounted coins, no holed coins, preferably no haymarked coins (but for some reason this is common on coins of this period, how does it happen exactly?), no counterstamped coins, and no creased or bent coins. As you can see i'm fussy about this particular denomination.

Now if it had been a William III half guinea i would have settled for bent, creased or haymarked, (wouldn't have an ex mount though, or a cleaned coin).

I bidded on one on Ebay, and i got thoroughly beaten, i gave up after £300, and that was a slightly bent example in about F, it went for about £400 in the end...and for a 1701 coin in that condition, some people have more money than brains, even i went too high and i probably would have broken the bank if i'd won it...so i'm glad i didn't, but i'm even gladder that i made someone else pay more for it.

I suppose that's the consolation prize when you lose something you really wanted, to know that someone has paid over the odds for it, perhaps two and a half times of what it's actually worth.

Still since i can't really afford to collect half guineas, i'll stick to sixpences.

My parents think i am wasting my money (despite the fact that my father was a semi-serious coin collector himself...he still gets on at me [i think he was more of a stamp man...which is an hobby i never really took to, and quit 2 weeks into it]).

My parents think £20 on a coin is scandalous, hence they don't know about most of my coin purchasing...if they'd found out i'd spent £225 on a James II half guinea they would have gone up the wall!

I remember telling them i'd paid £70 for a 1750 EF+ sixpence (actually it was £200), and my mother went mad...talk about a lecture, good job i didn't tell her what i really paid, only reason why she found out i'd got it in the first place is because she had to sign for the parcel!

Sylvester.

[Sylvester 15]

I'm mortified by switching "British" for "English" in the title. Before I go lash myself in contrition, let me say to Sylvester: this new history of the Tower Mint may be the "missing link" for silver mintage figures! If you can't find a copy yourself, I am willing to photocopy the pertinent pages and MAIL them to you.

Chris, I'm still considering that half-crown.

Eliza

Ah Eliza i presume you mean the use of the word English rather than British with regards to Mackay's book.

The reason is that if it's from Henry VII then it would be English coins, as Henry VII through to Elizabeth I were monarchs of England only, Scotland had their own kings (and Queen, singular intended) prior to 1603.

When Elizabeth died in 1603 her cousin James VI or Scotland inherited the throne of England and that's when it became Britain.

However Scotland continued minting it's own coins until about Anne's reign? So they still would be English Coins up until about 1707.

When the Act of Union took place, that's when the coins became British! (I think...) So English is more accurate than British in that sense.

Sylvester.

Eliza i would be very glad of photocopies, but l will check for the book first though...thanks!

[Chris Perkins 223]

Chris, thanks for making me the offer on the coin. The truth is i do need it...but, i am attempting to find as many of them in as higher grade as possible.

Then you can have it FOC. Use the private messenger thing or whatever to let me know the address and i'll send it to you.

Now, your mum can hardly object to a free coin, can she!

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

Then you can have it FOC. Use the private messenger thing or whatever to let me know the address and i'll send it to you.

Now, your mum can hardly object to a free coin, can she!

Chris

Don't underestimate my mother! I did look where that got me...

And about the coin, thank you Chris! That is very generous of you, and i will take good care of it...it will join the slightly bent 1696 sixpence that i aquired in a bag of scrap silver, currently in my good collection awaiting replacement with a better one, but i've got my eye on one!.

I'll send you my snail mail address in a private email.

Thanks again!

Sylvester.

[Guest Eliza]

Chris, is that Wm & Mary half crown still available? Let's talk. I'll send you email.

Sylvester: yes, it was a "momentary lapse of reason" on my part to switch out the words in the title. I'm indebted to you for not teasing me about being a Colonial! I browse so many books during a given day that I do occasionally confuse titles. I hope you can find the Mackay -- I can't over-recommend it. And so long as Chris has a mailing address for you, if you *need* the photocopies, we can work it that way.

Eliza

[Sylvester 15]

Chris, is that Wm & Mary half crown still available? Let's talk. I'll send you email.

Sylvester: yes, it was a "momentary lapse of reason" on my part to switch out the words in the title. I'm indebted to you for not teasing me about being a Colonial! I browse so many books during a given day that I do occasionally confuse titles. I hope you can find the Mackay -- I can't over-recommend it. And so long as Chris has a mailing address for you, if you *need* the photocopies, we can work it that way.

Eliza

Well Eliza i'll wait and see what you find on the mintage figures front, if you do find anything then i'll be glad of a photocopy of the relevant bits...

I've got my eye on one of those books, but my cash is tied up at the moment, Christmas shopping is pending and whether i'll have enough left over and all. Otherwise i'll have to wait till January. (i know they are not that expensive, but i'm on a tight budget until the new year)

Sylvester.

[Guest Eliza]

Sylvester, I'm on the same page: now, officially, out of hobby monies and facing Xmas shopping. I'm sure the book will wait for you. If a copy does not, let me know, and we'll figure something out. (My copy just arrived today, exactly the one I keep checking out from the library.)

So far no actual mintage figures, but bullion weights distilled into better proportions. I don't know if we'll ever have the real mintages, but this might be the best halfway compromise.

Eliza

[Guest Eliza]

Okay Sylvester, I toted this book in with me to work today. It weighs a stone, sigh! This is "A New History of the Royal Mint" edited by C.E. Challis (who is Reader in History at Leeds, btw). On p.340 there is a whole page table of silver coin output, 1660-1699 by pound, ounces, dwt, gr, and Pounds Sterling. So for 1663 it's

98,412 lbs / 1 oz / 18 dwt / 8 gr for L305,078

Compare 1665, the "Plague Year":

1,856 lbs / 2 oz / 5 dwt 0 gr for L5,754

There is a similar table for years 1700-1799 on p.434, and corresponding tables for gold coins.

Is this helpful? The book's ISBN is 0521 240 263 and imprint 1992.

Eliza

[Sylvester 15]

Okay Sylvester, I toted this book in with me to work today. It weighs a stone, sigh! This is "A New History of the Royal Mint" edited by C.E. Challis (who is Reader in History at Leeds, btw). On p.340 there is a whole page table of silver coin output, 1660-1699 by pound, ounces, dwt, gr, and Pounds Sterling. So for 1663 it's

98,412 lbs / 1 oz / 18 dwt / 8 gr for L305,078

Compare 1665, the "Plague Year":

1,856 lbs / 2 oz / 5 dwt 0 gr for L5,754

There is a similar table for years 1700-1799 on p.434, and corresponding tables for gold coins.

Is this helpful? The book's ISBN is 0521 240 263 and imprint 1992.

Eliza

Excellent, looks like we are getting somewhere, i'll have a browse around for it...if i can find a copy, i'll keep my eye on it and nab it as soon as i am able to.

Sylvester.

Anyone interested in coins of AEthelred II? Because i have found what looks to be a really good book on it...

Actually i'm using it for an essay on the 'achievements' of AEthelred's reign, it just so happens that there is alot of coin info in there too...not relevant to my essay however...

Anyone interested just say so on here, and i'll put the details up for it...

[Chris Perkins 223]

Post the essay when it's done if you like, I for one would like to know about the achievements of AEthelred II!

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

Post the essay when it's done if you like, I for one would like to know about the achievements of AEthelred II!

Chris

The essay is not that good i'm afraid...and his achievements, well from what i've read he didn't have any...i feel he was misunderstood, and therefore despite all his faults i find i'd like to stick up for him (i like misunderstood monarchs, AEthelred II 978-1016, Harold II 1066, Stephen 1035-1054, John 1199-1216, Richard II 1377-1399, Henry VI 1422?-1460 & 1470-1471, Richard III 1483-1485, Henry VII 1485-1509, Mary Tudor 1553-1558, James II 1685-1688, George IV 1820-1830, William IV 1830-1837...and i think that's about it) but all the evidence is clearly against AEthelred...sadly

Sylvester.

All the monarchs above are seen in a bad light for so many different reasons...notice how Charles I is missing from that list, but he was an idiot, who asked for what he got, if you still refuse to compromise with Parliament when it's clear you've lost what do you expect to happen?

[Sylvester 15]

Chris...

The sixpence arrived in the post today. Thanks alot for it! Pretty nice coin despite all the poor things it's seen, i bet that coin could tell us a thing or two! I now have a stand in 1745L sixpence...thanks again.

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Glad you got it, i'm sure someone expert enough could remove the silver loop and it would hardly be noticable, but then I suppose it is original exactly how it is.

Anyone else that makes 100 useful, well placed posts will also get a free coin!

(I have a number of Churchill crowns gathering dust!)

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

Glad you got it, i'm sure someone expert enough could remove the silver loop and it would hardly be noticable, but then I suppose it is original exactly how it is.

Anyone else that makes 100 useful, well placed posts will also get a free coin!

(I have a number of Churchill crowns gathering dust!)

Chris

That's just killed it Chris...

You'd be lucky to get another post now!

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 223]

You lot!

Check these out:

http://www.predecimal.com/bespoke_coins.htm

Chris

[Guest Eliza]

WORTH a look! For those of you who've never done business with Chris ... don't hesitate to do so! (Shameless endoresement of the Moderator.)

Sylvester, have you found the Mint history anywhere? The Geo III book advertised here is a good reference, too. Let me know if you want photocopies.

--Eliza

[Sylvester 15]

You lot!

Check these out:

http://www.predecimal.com/bespoke_coins.htm

Chris

Nooooooo! You are seriously trying to make me buy something. Both are well out of my price range. But that Queen Anne one...ou la la!

Sylvester.

[Sylvester 15]

Sylvester, have you found the Mint history anywhere? The Geo III book advertised here is a good reference, too. Let me know if you want photocopies.

--Eliza

Haven't found it i'm afraid.

But i'd be very happy of any of those photocopies regarding either sixpences or Half guineas (that should cut down the sheer amount both of us have to wade through). Just the basics i don't want to use up all your photocopying credits!

If you don't mind of course!

Sylvester.