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Sylvester

Early Milled Coinage

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Yes, good point.

Strange how a relatively modern period of coin production seems to be inaccurately or not at all recorded.

Will the truth ever be revealed, I wonder.

Chris

That's the problem me and Eliza have been having.

Anyhow where is Eliza out of interest?

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Guest Eliza

Eliza has been weathering the beginning of the semester here in the fair land of the University. Plus, snowfall ... bitter cold ... The drive home from work day before yesterday was incredibly arduous, though only about six blocks. All uphill, ice under slushy snow.

It's better now and here I am! The sun's even out.

I've backed off on acquiring any more early milled items after the splendid William and Mary half crown Chris provided as my Xmas present to myself. However I *did* finish off a sort of "Victorian project" with a shilling and half crown of 1844 in VF-EF and a Gothic florin of 1859. I'm ready to photocopy some Mint history pages for Sylvester -- I was actually dragging my heels until the new State of Michigan quarter is released (26/1) so I could send one along as a souvenir.

I have a question to everyone: WHERE are the Charles II 6ds? I see shillings, half crowns & crowns for sale but almost NEVER (if ever) a sixpence.

Eliza

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I have a question to everyone: WHERE are the Charles II 6ds? I see shillings, half crowns & crowns for sale but almost NEVER (if ever) a sixpence.

Eliza

Hmmm did i not mention that sixpences are the scarcest of the whole lot?

No? Well they are. If you think Charles II Sixpences are hard to find you should try looking for a James II one! I've only ever seen one in my entire life.

And when i comes to EM; Half crowns are everywhere! when compared to the other 3 proper silver coins. (leaving out the maundy stuff, which wasn't actually maundy as such). The only things that are harder to find than the sixpences are the C2 and J2 Tin halfpennies and farthings.

And the gold of course (except the guinea, but all other denoms; well...)

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Guest Eliza

Hey: I wonder ...

Chris & Sylvester, I'm going to try to SCAN the pages of this Mint History I keep yapping about, the tables of mintages by year. If there's any quality to the finished product at all, I'm going to FTP them (or email as an attachment) and they can be posted here. How does that sound?

Eliza

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Feel free to email them to me and I'll put them on my web space with a link to them.

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Guest Eliza

I'll do that! It may take a day or two -- I can get things scanned at the University Library across the street. I'll also provide the full bibliographic work-up, too, since it's absolutely copyrighted. If that poses a problem, let me know, and I'll fall back to photocopies to Sylvester.

E.

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Guest Eliza

I have photocopied two pages of statistics for gold and silver coinage, 1660 to 1694 (I think it is). I'll scan them early next week and we'll see if this system works.

Eliza

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I have photocopied two pages of statistics for gold and silver coinage, 1660 to 1694 (I think it is). I'll scan them early next week and we'll see if this system works.

Eliza

Dunno Eliza, depends how good the scanner is. I've tried to scan writing before and sometimes it just comes out totally blurred!

Oh Chris get out that book of yours and give me the R/RR/RRR treatment on these like you did for my 1680 sixpence.

The two that i bought are... (Sixpences)

1675 5 quite possibly over 4.

1676 6 over 5.

and the one i didn't buy;

Charles ii half guinea 1674. (a pretty decent one at that!)

Thanks in advance...

Syl.

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Eliza, yes feel free to send me your results. If the publishers ever find it I'm sure they'll ask to remove it nicely before sueing. In fact I may put it any a passworded area just for anyone that asks.

Sylvester,

There is indeed a 1675 5/4 variety listed, ESC gives it 'R' (Rare)

The 1676 6/5 is also 'R'. The normal 1676 is also 'R' and the normal 1675 is 'N' (normal).

I don't have the gold book, but I know there is one somewhere with an 'R' scale.

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There is indeed a 1675 5/4 variety listed, ESC gives it 'R' (Rare)

The 1676 6/5 is also 'R'. The normal 1676 is also 'R' and the normal 1675 is 'N' (normal).

I don't have the gold book, but I know there is one somewhere with an 'R' scale.

Thanks for that Chris.

I'm sure the 1675 is a 5/4, i think i can see the top of the 4 and the horizontal crossbar at the very rear of the 4.

Funny that because the dealer didn't note it down as such, but noted the 1676 down as 6/5 but the 5 if it's there is very very faint, that's if it's there at all.

Although i don't think 6 NOT over 5 actually exists as such. But the 7 is rather faint too...so it leads me to conclude that the 5 is present but just weak.

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Guest Eliza

First there was snow ...

Then freezing rain & sleet ...

Then MORE snow ...

Now it's about -8 F. for a windchill,

And I just crashed the Law School scanner trying to get these mintage tables ready to email to Chris.

Sigh.

Tomorrow, I go to the OTHER library across the street where they do this stuff all the time. Barring that ... it's snail-mail.

So: how *is* everybody? :)

Eliza

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Ah, what are you like. -8 is normal here, some nights it drops to -25.

We have over a foot of snow, but it seems these German people take in in their stride....Long as it doesn't prevent me going 'home' on Monday :ph34r:

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First there was snow ...

Then freezing rain & sleet ...

Then MORE snow ...

Now it's about -8 F. for a windchill,

And I just crashed the Law School scanner trying to get these mintage tables ready to email to Chris.

Sigh.

Tomorrow, I go to the OTHER library across the street where they do this stuff all the time. Barring that ... it's snail-mail.

So: how *is* everybody? :)

Eliza

Excellent Eliza!

I'm not half accumulating these sixpences...

Charles II coins left to get;

1675 the no overdate variety (currently in the process of trying to aquire one of these, having to trade in some my coins now to nab this one, totally out of cash!)

1676 the no overdate variety, exists???

1677

1678/7

1679

1681

1682

1682/1

1683

1684

Oh it's all go! There is a 1681 available but it has some die flaws and is in much lower condition than i wanted, so i'll pass on that one!

Sylvester.

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Guest Eliza

OOOOKAY!

It is the day and the hour. Mr. Perkins: Stand by to receive JPEGs.

(I hope this works.)

Eliza

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I'm standing by.

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I'm standing by.

i'm just standing... :D

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Guest Eliza

"They also serve, who stand & wait."

--Milton

So, Sylvester, you *do* have a few CHII 6ds? As I said earlier, I can't find them anywhere.

E.

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Guest Eliza

Now that I've jinxed myself by proclaiming my health, only to wind up smote by influenza ...

I found an article in a bound volume of The Numismatist, the official publication of the ANA, on Maundy money (July 1950: v.63 no.7 pgs.385-411). It has a decent bibliography and refers to 18th century books on coinage as well, in the text. There's a book by Stephen Martin Leake, "Nummi Britannica Historia," published in 1726, that might have better fractions of mintages than what we can obtain from modern sources.

In the meantime, I'll keep looking!

Eliza

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There's a book by Stephen Martin Leake, "Nummi Britannica Historia," published in 1726

That sounds like it may be a barrel of laughs!

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There's a book by Stephen Martin Leake, "Nummi Britannica Historia," published in 1726

That sounds like it may be a barrel of laughs!

Ah Mr Leake, yes Coincraft referenced him quite a bit.

I've been wanting to get hold of that book, not just for the coins i just thought it would go well with the book collection.

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Nice research guys, I'm impressed.

Two bits of useless info I didn't spot-

A "Journey" of silver was the amount (I think in hammered days, but possibly early milled) of silver made into coin in a day which was 60lb Troy and made 3960 shillings. The article I read this in also gave numbers of some other coins but (sorry ) I was only interested in the shilling bit!

Haymarking is just that. Handfulls of hay were thrown into the molten silver. I believe it helped to burn off or deposit impurities. Some bubbles or burnt bits presumably remained, leaving the marks. I don't think it had anything to do with the dies so you could get an 'as struck' coin still with marks.

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A "Journey" of silver was the amount (I think in hammered days, but possibly early milled) of silver made into coin in a day which was 60lb Troy and made 3960 shillings. The article I read this in also gave numbers of some other coins but (sorry ) I was only interested in the shilling bit!

Well if that is the case i should imagine sixpences would be double that amount, halfcrowns would be half and a quarter of that figure...

But without the ratios one cannot be certain.

And i guess that's a more plausible reason for haymarking, as in 'Hay'.

Chemical reaction between the hay and the silver oxides and other impurities. I can almost imagine a kind of ammonia type experiment from chemistry.

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