Religion and politics

[choolie 0]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

[azda 973]

Religion and Politics, 2 of the main reasons of war throughout the ages

[Rob 3,002]

Religion and Politics, 2 of the main reasons of war throughout the ages

I concur. The only other obvious offender is resources, i.e you have something I want. But that is often a diversionary tactic to deflect the political situation at home or a catalyst to start an internal conflict coupled to political differences.

[Peckris 579]

...

Edited May 20, 2012 by Peckris

[Peter 615]

Religion and Politics, 2 of the main reasons of war throughout the ages

I concur. The only other obvious offender is resources, i.e you have something I want. But that is often a diversionary tactic to deflect the political situation at home or a catalyst to start an internal conflict coupled to political differences.

Or they are French

[Peckris 579]

Religion and Politics, 2 of the main reasons of war throughout the ages

Wrong. So-called religious wars are almost always about power or economic oppression, and you can include the Inquisition and Crusades in that. And Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot were all either atheist or else non-religious. You have to go back to the English Civil War to find wars fought on grnuinely religious principles. It is notable that those who - wittingly or unwittingly - start or originate a religious system are pretty much all peace loving hippie types. The common thread in all religions is The Golden Rule which can be loosely expressed as "Do unto others as you would they should do unto you".

[azda 973]

I thought Hitler etc were just dictators of countries and not exactly politicians

[Coinery 926]

"Do unto others as you would they should do unto you".

'an it harm none!' is another!

[declanwmagee 122]

Religion and Politics, 2 of the main reasons of war throughout the ages

Wrong. So-called religious wars are almost always about power or economic oppression, and you can include the Inquisition and Crusades in that. And Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot were all either atheist or else non-religious. You have to go back to the English Civil War to find wars fought on grnuinely religious principles. It is notable that those who - wittingly or unwittingly - start or originate a religious system are pretty much all peace loving hippie types. The common thread in all religions is The Golden Rule which can be loosely expressed as "Do unto others as you would they should do unto you".

Quite right, Mr Peckris. Although you could argue that even the English Civil War was really about a power struggle between Parliament and Monarch - simlar to the struggles between Pope and Holy Roman Emperor on the continent.

[argentumandcoins 70]

You can pretty much boil it down to the fact that all wars are started because man is by his nature a destructive, violent, beast.

[Peckris 579]

You can pretty much boil it down to the fact that all wars are started because man is by his nature a destructive, violent, beast.

Hmm. Then why have all peoples and politicians down the ages (well, for donkeys centuries anyway) described war as a necessary 'evil' which they only engaged in a last resort? If man was so violent, war would surely be celebrated and peace decried.

[choolie 0]

You can pretty much boil it down to the fact that all wars are started because man is by his nature a destructive, violent, beast.

you are taking the position of Thomas Hobbes who would agree with you, john locke on the other hand would say man in the state of nature is peaceful and good. I think both Hobbes and Locke are cool they are philosophers from a few hundred years ago for anyone who doesn't know.

[argentumandcoins 70]

You can pretty much boil it down to the fact that all wars are started because man is by his nature a destructive, violent, beast.

Hmm. Then why have all peoples and politicians down the ages (well, for donkeys centuries anyway) described war as a necessary 'evil' which they only engaged in a last resort? If man was so violent, war would surely be celebrated and peace decried.

How do 90% of the males of the species respond to a hostile act? We are programmed with "fight or flight", most of us fight. When you argue with somebody, a heated argument, do you stay calm and peaceful? OR; Do your nostrils flare? Do your fists clench? Your blood pressure rise?

We plough more into weapons than we do health, like most countries on the planet.

Neolithic mans first inventions were weapons and we have continued to invent them ever since.

We are, by nature, violent and if you don't agree I might just come down and stick one on you

Edited May 21, 2012 by argentumandcoins

[azda 973]

Neolithic mans weapons were surely for hunting John Not for sticking it into the neighbour, thats what eventually happened when the neighbour was caught in the cave with neolithic mans woman

[Peckris 579]

You can pretty much boil it down to the fact that all wars are started because man is by his nature a destructive, violent, beast.

Hmm. Then why have all peoples and politicians down the ages (well, for donkeys centuries anyway) described war as a necessary 'evil' which they only engaged in a last resort? If man was so violent, war would surely be celebrated and peace decried.

How do 90% of the males of the species respond to a hostile act? We are programmed with "fight or flight", most of us fight. When you argue with somebody, a heated argument, do you stay calm and peaceful? OR; Do your nostrils flare? Do your fists clench? Your blood pressure rise?

We plough more into weapons than we do health, like most countries on the planet.

Neolithic mans first inventions were weapons and we have continued to invent them ever since.

We are, by nature, violent and if you don't agree I might just come down and stick one on you

And yet there are Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Yoga, Sufism, monks and nuns of all religions, Quakers, etc, who teach and try to practice the opposite. Which may well be religion's one true gift to the human race - a peaceable alternative to fight or flight. If we were so "programmed" as you say, then none of that would have a chance of success.

[1949threepence 3,366]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

Assange

On a forum that I frequent, religious type threads usually degenerate into slnging matches as well. The harshest invective generally stems from atheists towards believers.

[Peckris 579]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

Assange

On a forum that I frequent, religious type threads usually degenerate into slnging matches as well. The harshest invective generally stems from atheists towards believers.

Wow. What do they sing? Would that they would confine themselves just to the art of song

Yes, I find the same. Which is odd, I'd have thought fundamentalists would crawl out of their strait-jackets and join in, but perhaps I frequent the wrong forums!

[1949threepence 3,366]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

Assange

On a forum that I frequent, religious type threads usually degenerate into slnging matches as well. The harshest invective generally stems from atheists towards believers.

Wow. What do they sing? Would that they would confine themselves just to the art of song

Yes, I find the same. Which is odd, I'd have thought fundamentalists would crawl out of their strait-jackets and join in, but perhaps I frequent the wrong forums!

Slanging !!!

Personally, I find it difficult to understand. As far as I'm concerned, religion is a matter for the individual. Just so long as they don't try and inflict their beliefs on me, they can believe in what God they like. I don't care. The expenditure of emotional energy that goes into some of these debates is unreal.

Edited May 23, 2012 by 1949threepence

[TomGoodheart 373]

Couple of years back I used to frequent the Religion & Spirituality board on Yahoo Answers. Now that was a bear pit!

You'd get the atheists vs the believers, the Christians (aka protestants) vs the Catholics, the pagans vs the fluffy bunnies and everyone was regularly told they were going to hell, whether they believed in it of not!

I did learn an awful lot though, so it wasn't all bad. Plus it was kinda fun, in a carcrash sort of way.

[argentumandcoins 70]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

Assange

On a forum that I frequent, religious type threads usually degenerate into slnging matches as well. The harshest invective generally stems from atheists towards believers.

Wow. What do they sing? Would that they would confine themselves just to the art of song

Yes, I find the same. Which is odd, I'd have thought fundamentalists would crawl out of their strait-jackets and join in, but perhaps I frequent the wrong forums!

Slanging !!!

Personally, I find it difficult to understand. As far as I'm concerned, religion is a matter for the individual. Just so long as they don't try and inflict their beliefs on me, they can believe in what God they like. I don't care. The expenditure of emotional energy that goes into some of these debates is unreal.

Totally agree Mike. Life's short enough already without wasting time and effort trying to impose your beliefs on others. Live and let live.

[Peter 615]

I enjoy Douglas Adams view on life....as we spiral down to Jonathan Livingstone Seagull.

Just relax,play some music and have a slice of "special" pizza.

[TomGoodheart 373]

I like Alan Moore's quote: 'The one place gods inarguably exist is in the human mind'.

[Peckris 579]

I only bring this up because I have seen a couple of threads going this way lately. I used to post on another forum the Banjo Hangout, but on there you weren't allowed to post on religion or politics. I wasn't aware of it until I Posted something about julian (can't remember his surname) of wikileaks.I asked why my thread had been stopped and I was told that before my time they had had dedicated forums to religion and politics but that the debates had frequently degenerated into slanging matches with constant insults and abuse. I took their point but I thought it sounded quite lively and regretted that we could not continue on the subjects. Indeed very often threads would become political or refer to religion and would go on for quite some time before the censors stepped in. Anyway I am pleased to see there is no censorship here and look forward to our debaTes degenerating into whatever

Assange

On a forum that I frequent, religious type threads usually degenerate into slnging matches as well. The harshest invective generally stems from atheists towards believers.

Wow. What do they sing? Would that they would confine themselves just to the art of song

Yes, I find the same. Which is odd, I'd have thought fundamentalists would crawl out of their strait-jackets and join in, but perhaps I frequent the wrong forums!

Slanging !!!

Personally, I find it difficult to understand. As far as I'm concerned, religion is a matter for the individual. Just so long as they don't try and inflict their beliefs on me, they can believe in what God they like. I don't care. The expenditure of emotional energy that goes into some of these debates is unreal.

I think as Brits, living in a largely secular society, we fail to understand the way atheists are marginalised in the States, which is a far more religious society than ours. Hence they get much more aggressive in forums, as they probably feel the world is against them. I've heard them tell it "like it is", and it's jaw-dropping. Much as I love Americans, I could never live in a country where Christian belief is the expected "norm".

Edited May 23, 2012 by Peckris

[Peter 615]

I have belief because I don't understand the universe.Someone please explain.

I look after my family and just get on with other people.It isn't difficult.

[argentumandcoins 70]

I have belief because I don't understand the universe.Someone please explain.

I look after my family and just get on with other people.It isn't difficult.

Unfortunately Peter, you, I (and I would hazard a guess everybody else on this forum) are the same, but we are the 10% minority in this country.

The underclass (pondlife if you will) believe in copious amounts of alcohol, Ciggies, drugs, social handouts, free housing and a lack of soap. They believe that the god of take what you want, when you want was the creator of all things. As for getting on with people, well the only "getting on" they can manage is getting on top of the opposite sex to spawn more of the same.