Help with Better Dates with issues to hunt for

[coppercop 0]

My UK knowledge is in the "Infantile" stage...I ordered the 2011 UK Coin Book from the site, so, I expect to move into "Juevenile" stage shortly..

I'll be frank..I like to hunt for Varieties and Errors...nothing makes my day more than finding coins with issues...nothing makes my year more than finding a new Variety, it feeds my somewhat shall we say pathetic ego, and, keeps me hunting for more. I recently won a slew of UK 1/2 pennies and Pennies online, dirt cheap, and, I fell in love instantly with the toning of the bronze, and, the overall look of the coins, and, of course, the History in my hand(I do daydream WHERE a coin has been, whom handled it, etc..that's the fun side of this hobby!).

Anyway..there is A LOT to learn...I want to move slowly....today, I worked on the different die numbers and die pairings on my 1937 Pennies, and, it was a good experience for me to learn the differences. It looks like it would be best to limit my next rounds of hunting to Edward VII and prior coinage, so as to perhaps find a scarcer dates, and Varieties(I like to scour the "Lot Sales", and find some kid selling his "Uncle's" Coin Collection, and hope they are not very knowledgable!)...if anybody cares to point me in the right direction where to find a simple list of key coins to look for, including some of the more interesting Varieties and Errors, that would be very helpful...maybe there is a specific Book I need to know about you can pass along too.

thanks a ton.

Calvin G.

[Rob 2,996]

My UK knowledge is in the "Infantile" stage...I ordered the 2011 UK Coin Book from the site, so, I expect to move into "Juevenile" stage shortly..

I'll be frank..I like to hunt for Varieties and Errors...nothing makes my day more than finding coins with issues...nothing makes my year more than finding a new Variety, it feeds my somewhat shall we say pathetic ego, and, keeps me hunting for more. I recently won a slew of UK 1/2 pennies and Pennies online, dirt cheap, and, I fell in love instantly with the toning of the bronze, and, the overall look of the coins, and, of course, the History in my hand(I do daydream WHERE a coin has been, whom handled it, etc..that's the fun side of this hobby!).

Anyway..there is A LOT to learn...I want to move slowly....today, I worked on the different die numbers and die pairings on my 1937 Pennies, and, it was a good experience for me to learn the differences. It looks like it would be best to limit my next rounds of hunting to Edward VII and prior coinage, so as to perhaps find a scarcer dates, and Varieties(I like to scour the "Lot Sales", and find some kid selling his "Uncle's" Coin Collection, and hope they are not very knowledgable!)...if anybody cares to point me in the right direction where to find a simple list of key coins to look for, including some of the more interesting Varieties and Errors, that would be very helpful...maybe there is a specific Book I need to know about you can pass along too.

thanks a ton.

Calvin G.

It isn't difficult to find much of the info if you spend a bit of money on a few books. No one volume has a comprehensive list of varieties, but half a dozen books would cover those recorded in print to date. Freeman for 1860 onwards bronze, Davies for silver 1816 onwards, ESC for silver from 1649, Peck is still THE book for small denominations from Elizabeth I until the early 1960s, Coincraft, last issued in 2000 has good coverage and Dave Groom's two volumes on 20th century coins. If gold takes your fancy, then Marsh's sovereign and half sovereign books together with Coincraft will cover most varieties. As with all references, each is incomplete in its own way, so you will find yourself recording varieties that aren't listed elsewhere. The various prices guides are unhelpful as a rule because they only cover a few of the more popular varieties, but of these, I would say that Spink's Coins of England is more comprehensive than the rest, covering as it does the whole range of British coinage rather than a restricted date range.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Rob

[declanwmagee 122]

There are lots of little known varieties of coins that most people would automatically consign to the junk bin, some of which are very difficult to find. I have been searching for the scarcer types of 1965 and 1964 sixpence for years, for instance.

To narrow Rob's list further, I'd get Mr Groom's books first if I were you - 20th Century coins are easy to find, and the microvarieties that he comprehensively describes, and illustrates, are really the last genuine treasure hunting available to the collector of modern predecimal.

[azda 973]

And to narrow it even further (if its pennies you are looking for) Michael Goubys book will be the one you're wanting

The British Bronze Penny 1860-1901

[Peckris 579]

Decide first what area(s) you want to collect in, as a complete library of those books would be expensive for you.

If general UK bronze, then go for the Freeman book.

If pennies, go for Gouby (or Freeman, though Gouby is more recent and has a few extra varieties in).

If 20th Century, go for either or both of Dave Groom's books.

If silver after 1816, go for Davies.

And our own Chris Perkins' Collectors Coins GB (CCGB) is a price guide from 1797 which covers most of the smaller varieties (and it's cheap!)

Forget Peck - it's a standard work, and very very comprehensive, but unless you are collecting early milled or 18th / early 19th Century patterns and proofs (Peck is peerless on the output of the Soho Mint for example), then other books give coverage just as good and a lot cheaper too. There is also the English Silver Coinage (ESC) but that is best for coverage of early milled; later coin issues are now superseded by both Davies and Groom.

[Peter 615]

Peck knocking Peck

Ir you are serious about pre 1860 copper this book is a must (it will set you back about £150 for a reasonable copy).

Modern copper/bronze (post 1860) is covered by previous posts.

Please define your interests a bit more so tips can be provided.There are even internet sites that are useful.

Aboutfarthings...a brilliant site by a forum member.

Colin Cooke (collections of 1/4,1/2 & 1ds) are archived for reference.

Happy reading and searching.

[coppercop 0]

Fantastic..thanks to all for the tips..

I found this site online, the photo's and descriptions are most helpful.

http://www.wybrit.com/Museum/British%20Coin%20Catalogue.htm

Your all a ice friendly group here..thanks for letting me participate.

Calvin

[Coinery 926]

Decide first what area(s) you want to collect in, as a complete library of those books would be expensive for you.

If general UK bronze, then go for the Freeman book.

If pennies, go for Gouby (or Freeman, though Gouby is more recent and has a few extra varieties in).

If 20th Century, go for either or both of Dave Groom's books.

If silver after 1816, go for Davies.

And our own Chris Perkins' Collectors Coins GB (CCGB) is a price guide from 1797 which covers most of the smaller varieties (and it's cheap!)

Forget Peck - it's a standard work, and very very comprehensive, but unless you are collecting early milled or 18th / early 19th Century patterns and proofs (Peck is peerless on the output of the Soho Mint for example), then other books give coverage just as good and a lot cheaper too. There is also the English Silver Coinage (ESC) but that is best for coverage of early milled; later coin issues are now superseded by both Davies and Groom.

Can I just ask, as I have never browsed Gouby or Freeman, but do these books add anything more to Peck?

If I was wanting to collect Victoria pennies, for example, would I be finding a great deal more to collect, many more variants listed, if I had Gouby or Freeman on the shelf? My God, the mentality of collectomania, the insanity of wanting to know the existence of ever micro-detail...and then seeking it out!

[declanwmagee 122]

For that specific area, Victorian Pennies, 1860-1901, the answer is a resounding Yes. In this order (most detailed first) - Gouby, Freeman, Peck.

Freeman also covers farthings and halfpennies, 1860-1970, and Peck goes back into the mists of time, all copper, tin, and bronze denominations. There's not much else for pre-1860 copper, although, it has to be said, Michael Gouby's website makes a good stab of being a publication in its own right. I use it as the primary key for all the 185x copper overdates, for instance, because there's nothing better out there, as far as I know.

[Coinery 926]

For that specific area, Victorian Pennies, 1860-1901, the answer is a resounding Yes. In this order (most detailed first) - Gouby, Freeman, Peck.

Freeman also covers farthings and halfpennies, 1860-1970, and Peck goes back into the mists of time, all copper, tin, and bronze denominations. There's not much else for pre-1860 copper, although, it has to be said, Michael Gouby's website makes a good stab of being a publication in its own right. I use it as the primary key for all the 185x copper overdates, for instance, because there's nothing better out there, as far as I know.

Freeman & Gouby it is then, many thanks for that!

At the risk of sounding pathetic, this is such a great forum.

I'll check out MC's site too.

[Accumulator 52]

For that specific area, Victorian Pennies, 1860-1901, the answer is a resounding Yes. In this order (most detailed first) - Gouby, Freeman, Peck.

Freeman also covers farthings and halfpennies, 1860-1970, and Peck goes back into the mists of time, all copper, tin, and bronze denominations. There's not much else for pre-1860 copper, although, it has to be said, Michael Gouby's website makes a good stab of being a publication in its own right. I use it as the primary key for all the 185x copper overdates, for instance, because there's nothing better out there, as far as I know.

Freeman & Gouby it is then, many thanks for that!

At the risk of sounding pathetic, this is such a great forum.

I'll check out MC's site too.

I second Freeman and Gouby. If you buy one it would probably need to be Freeman as his references are far more universally used by auction houses, sellers generally and on forums such as this. Undoubtedly Gouby goes deeper, especially in the position of date numerals, whereas Freeman confines itself mainly to die pairings. As Declan suggests, the combination of Freeman's book and Michael Gouby's website covers most angles.

[Peckris 579]

Decide first what area(s) you want to collect in, as a complete library of those books would be expensive for you.

If general UK bronze, then go for the Freeman book.

If pennies, go for Gouby (or Freeman, though Gouby is more recent and has a few extra varieties in).

If 20th Century, go for either or both of Dave Groom's books.

If silver after 1816, go for Davies.

And our own Chris Perkins' Collectors Coins GB (CCGB) is a price guide from 1797 which covers most of the smaller varieties (and it's cheap!)

Forget Peck - it's a standard work, and very very comprehensive, but unless you are collecting early milled or 18th / early 19th Century patterns and proofs (Peck is peerless on the output of the Soho Mint for example), then other books give coverage just as good and a lot cheaper too. There is also the English Silver Coinage (ESC) but that is best for coverage of early milled; later coin issues are now superseded by both Davies and Groom.

Can I just ask, as I have never browsed Gouby or Freeman, but do these books add anything more to Peck?

If I was wanting to collect Victoria pennies, for example, would I be finding a great deal more to collect, many more variants listed, if I had Gouby or Freeman on the shelf? My God, the mentality of collectomania, the insanity of wanting to know the existence of ever micro-detail...and then seeking it out!

Peck only goes into bronze varieties in a limited way - basically those that were known about in the 1950s/60s. And only those he regards as significant - which excludes broken dies, repunched dates, etc. Freeman is far more comprehensive, and Gouby adds the icing to Freeman's cake. Just plucking figures out of the air - Peck has maybe 66%? known bronze varieties. Freeman has over 95%. Gouby has all the currently known ones. However, Gouby only covers pennies. This is not a disaster - there are many fewer varieties occurring in halfpennies and even fewer in farthings, so Freeman's coverage is that much more comprehensive.

[declanwmagee 122]

there are many fewer varieties occurring in halfpennies and even fewer in farthings, so Freeman's coverage is that much more comprehensive.

Do you think that's a result of less study, Peck, or genuinely less variation? People do like their pennies...

[Peckris 579]

there are many fewer varieties occurring in halfpennies and even fewer in farthings, so Freeman's coverage is that much more comprehensive.

Do you think that's a result of less study, Peck, or genuinely less variation? People do like their pennies...

I think it is probably more to do with fewer varieties - farthings had a lower priority anyway, but the smallness of the design meant it was a better balanced strike anyway (look at how many survive in really decent grades). A similar case could be made for halfpennies, and Freeman covered them pretty comprehensively.

On the other hand, if you want to do the study ...

[Peter 615]

there are many fewer varieties occurring in halfpennies and even fewer in farthings, so Freeman's coverage is that much more comprehensive.

Do you think that's a result of less study, Peck, or genuinely less variation? People do like their pennies...

I think it is probably more to do with fewer varieties - farthings had a lower priority anyway, but the smallness of the design meant it was a better balanced strike anyway (look at how many survive in really decent grades). A similar case could be made for halfpennies, and Freeman covered them pretty comprehensively.

On the other hand, if you want to do the study ...

Farthings are being processed.

[Peckris 579]

there are many fewer varieties occurring in halfpennies and even fewer in farthings, so Freeman's coverage is that much more comprehensive.

Do you think that's a result of less study, Peck, or genuinely less variation? People do like their pennies...

I think it is probably more to do with fewer varieties - farthings had a lower priority anyway, but the smallness of the design meant it was a better balanced strike anyway (look at how many survive in really decent grades). A similar case could be made for halfpennies, and Freeman covered them pretty comprehensively.

On the other hand, if you want to do the study ...

Farthings are being processed.

You're doing the study Peter? How many previously undiscovered varieties are coming to light? (That's another reason I didn't mention - farthings are so small that study of them is a pain!)

[declanwmagee 122]

I've never seen anything better than Colin's site. Like MichaelCoins, it's a publication in its own right. Knocks spots off Freeman and Peck too.

[Peter 615]

Hi Peck

It is Colin Goode's site Aboutfarthings.

Surely you were aware of this?

[Peckris 579]

Hi Peck

It is Colin Goode's site Aboutfarthings.

Surely you were aware of this?

I knew of Colin's site, of course, and of his enthusiasm. What I didn't know was that he was systematically "doing a Freeman" ("doing a Gouby"? that sounds vaguely rude, somehow ). I thought it was ad hoc and unofficial.

[Peter 615]

Hi Peck

It is Colin Goode's site Aboutfarthings.

Surely you were aware of this?

I knew of Colin's site, of course, and of his enthusiasm. What I didn't know was that he was systematically "doing a Freeman" ("doing a Gouby"? that sounds vaguely rude, somehow ). I thought it was ad hoc and unofficial.

I will let Colin update you in person.I did notice a seller on Ebay referring to Colins site.

[Colin G. 147]

Hi Peck

It is Colin Goode's site Aboutfarthings.

Surely you were aware of this?

I knew of Colin's site, of course, and of his enthusiasm. What I didn't know was that he was systematically "doing a Freeman" ("doing a Gouby"? that sounds vaguely rude, somehow ). I thought it was ad hoc and unofficial.

It was adhoc and unofficial...at first...but I always had a vision of moving things into something a bit more formal but I really didn't feel I understood varieties enough at that point in time to produce something that I could be satisfied with. I have since re-assessed my ideas/visions and finally decided it was time to make the next big step forward. I have completely reviewed my entire catalogue and way of thinking/cataloguing etc. I have in essence started from scratch because it has meant renumbering my collection and database as well as webpages etc. This is the main reason progress on the website had stalled.

It is still very much a work in progress, but I am more satisfied with where I am and feel that I am finally achieving something that will be worthwhile. Watch this space

Edited December 15, 2011 by Colin G.

[RLC35 288]

Colin, Let us know when you are ready to accept new farthing types/errors, etc. and I for one will be glad to contribute!

[Peckris 579]

Hi Peck

It is Colin Goode's site Aboutfarthings.

Surely you were aware of this?

I knew of Colin's site, of course, and of his enthusiasm. What I didn't know was that he was systematically "doing a Freeman" ("doing a Gouby"? that sounds vaguely rude, somehow ). I thought it was ad hoc and unofficial.

It was adhoc and unofficial...at first...but I always had a vision of moving things into something a bit more formal but I really didn't feel I understood varieties enough at that point in time to produce something that I could be satisfied with. I have since re-assessed my ideas/visions and finally decided it was time to make the next big step forward. I have completely reviewed my entire catalogue and way of thinking/cataloguing etc. I have in essence started from scratch because it has meant renumbering my collection and database as well as webpages etc. This is the main reason progress on the website had stalled.

It is still very much a work in progress, but I am more satisfied with where I am and feel that I am finally achieving something that will be worthwhile. Watch this space

Cool. Good luck with the project. Of course, you do know another famous Colin was working on the farthings section of a planned update/replacement for Peck before his untimely demise? It's somehow appropriate that a Colin should be the one who steps into his shoes!

[Peter 615]

Looking back it is 6 1/2yrs since CC died.His encyclopedia would of been published by now and the farthing variety market blasting off into orbit making me a"farthing" millionaires overnight.