Jump to content


50 Years of RotographicPredecimal.com. British Numismatic Trade Association Member - One of the most popular websites on British coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Collectors' Coins Great Britain 2014 Standard Guide to Grading British Coins British and Empire Campaign Medals 1793 to 1902British and Irish Campaign Medals 1902 to 2010England's Striking History Roman Base Metal Coins - A Price Guide Roman Silver Coins - A Price Guide  Available for Kindle Available as .epub
The Current Rotographic printed book titles on Amazon. Click the Kindle icon above to see the Rotographic range for Kindle. Click the .epub icon to purchase as .epub direct from Rotographic.

50 Years of RotographicRotographic.com Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals.

Photo

Melting down coins for profit


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:41 PM

I've heard different opinions on this matter for a while now and I thought it might be enlightening to know what you lot have to say.

As we know, metal prices are rising and some dealers melt down early 20th Century coins (especially gold and silver).

I for one stand for conserving out numismatic heritage (Except those damn 1967 pennies. I have 40 66 and 67s just taking up space... lob 'em all I say).

My view is it's also OK to melt down coins that in bad condition (only fairly common ones though).

What's your view?

This isn't just a forum - Purchase British coins, collecting accessories and books on www.predecimal.com

#2 Peter

Peter

    Mr R Sleeker

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,419 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suffolk
  • Interests:Coins,fishing and British sports cars

Posted 25 February 2011 - 12:58 PM

I have no problems with melting coins.No one would melt anything which is worth more than the copper /silver /gold content and it would get rid of a lot of rubbish.I would also like to melt a few Ebay sellers who list junk. ;)

#3 scottishmoney

scottishmoney

    An unimportant part of the furnishings

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 998 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston USA
  • Interests:17th Century tokens, Scottish coins of course, and any excessively large numismatic item.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:09 PM

I have no problems with melting coins.No one would melt anything which is worth more than the copper /silver /gold content and it would get rid of a lot of rubbish.I would also like to melt a few Ebay sellers who list junk. ;)



Ah, you are a generous one, only a melt, and not a total burnout to ash for these perfidious eBay sellers? :huh:

#4 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 02:21 PM

I have no problems with melting coins.No one would melt anything which is worth more than the copper /silver /gold content and it would get rid of a lot of rubbish.I would also like to melt a few Ebay sellers who list junk. ;)


What about dealers who melt any old copper/silver that they get without checking properly and miss a rare variety or something like that?

#5 TomGoodheart

TomGoodheart

    Happy as a cat full of sixpences

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,074 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Usually somewhere sunny.
  • Interests:Decent coffee, Italian food, a glass of red wine and my family (though not necessarily in that order!) Crosswords, enjoying my garden and British weather.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 02:24 PM

Well, I'm just about to post off a little lot of silver oddments to Chris, who will presumably do just that with anything uninteresting (which is most of it). The coins are generally fine or a bit better and yes, I could list on ebay but to be honest I just want some cash I can spend on coins I want. I doubt I bought many of them; they were leftovers from Dad's 'collection' of coins picked out of change.

I don't think the disappearance of any of mine (I listed a few in the 'For Sale' section) will affect our numismatic heritage. And a reasonable proportion are around .90 silver so I imagine (hope!) the melt value will generally exceed the retail. But I'll let Chris decide that and just wait for my cheque!

I have some spare Charles I Tower shillings for sale.  Interested?  PM me!


#6 argentumandcoins

argentumandcoins

    Not a God, just a man!

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,338 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham, UK
  • Interests:Apart from coins; My 3 sons (youngest born new years day 2012), Newcastle United, Durham CCC, Salmon and Trout fishing, shooting, malt whisky, red wine and good cigars. NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER!!!

Posted 25 February 2011 - 04:19 PM

I'm with Peter.
If you attend auctions and attempt to view the bulk lots you will see just how much low grade crap there is floating about. The more that gets scrapped the better.
I have sold bulk lots with some VF or better GV and GVI silver in as it is worth more as scrap than it is as a coin.

#7 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:58 PM

What are your views on old gold sov.s being melted?

Their current gold price is £437.50 which could buy you most 19th Century sovereigns in EF and 20 odd years in UNC and make a profit of up to 200%.

I believe that modern ones can be melted down as they were only created to sell for profit anyway but even the rare years (like just 20,000 in 1879) would still have a greater worth in gold than it's numismatic value.

Your views?

#8 Peter

Peter

    Mr R Sleeker

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,419 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suffolk
  • Interests:Coins,fishing and British sports cars

Posted 25 February 2011 - 06:16 PM

What are your views on old gold sov.s being melted?

Their current gold price is £437.50 which could buy you most 19th Century sovereigns in EF and 20 odd years in UNC and make a profit of up to 200%.

I believe that modern ones can be melted down as they were only created to sell for profit anyway but even the rare years (like just 20,000 in 1879) would still have a greater worth in gold than it's numismatic value.

Your views?


Melt price for sovereigns is just less than £200 (just over 8 grams of 22ct gold).No metal melter would scrap anything decent unless he was brain dead.

#9 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:52 PM


What are your views on old gold sov.s being melted?

Their current gold price is £437.50 which could buy you most 19th Century sovereigns in EF and 20 odd years in UNC and make a profit of up to 200%.

I believe that modern ones can be melted down as they were only created to sell for profit anyway but even the rare years (like just 20,000 in 1879) would still have a greater worth in gold than it's numismatic value.

Your views?


Melt price for sovereigns is just less than £200 (just over 8 grams of 22ct gold).No metal melter would scrap anything decent unless he was brain dead.


I think I made a bit of an error there! :huh:
Even so one could still make a profit on almost any 19th Century sov. in VF.

#10 argentumandcoins

argentumandcoins

    Not a God, just a man!

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,338 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham, UK
  • Interests:Apart from coins; My 3 sons (youngest born new years day 2012), Newcastle United, Durham CCC, Salmon and Trout fishing, shooting, malt whisky, red wine and good cigars. NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER!!!

Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:23 PM

I would guess that the sovereigns don't find the melting pot as the coin itself is as good as any hallmark (the carat is always 22 although the weight obviously alters with wear).
The tat jewellery on the other hand will all be reformed into nice ingots as most chains are only marked on the clasp and thus the purity (or even metal) of the chain cannot be assumed to be correct.

#11 Accumulator

Accumulator

    Forum God

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,172 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:53 PM

Melt price for sovereigns is just less than £200 (just over 8 grams of 22ct gold).No metal melter would scrap anything decent unless he was brain dead.


Actually 7.98g of 22k gold, and they are very precise.

Edited by Accumulator, 25 February 2011 - 08:54 PM.


#12 ski

ski

    Important part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 889 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:sixpences, florins and double florins.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:02 PM

ive been a coin collector for 40 odd years and i have never even considered this.

i will stand on the side of melting, but only if were talking fair/fine coins as im a great believer in the preservation of our numismatic heritage.
i would not want to melt a good piece just because its metal value is more than its value as a piece of history, the coin collector in me is fighting that......I think that may be an easier decision to make if i were a coin dealer however as turnover/profit comes into the equation.

I have 1966 and 1967 coins in my collection and more besides, pennys halfpennys dodecagonals and as much as serious collectors may feel their of no numismatic value, i treasure them, as an 8 year old entering the hobby, they were my first coins, metal values may exceed their value.....but their mine and have been for over 40 years.

my sons can fight over who melts them when im gone :P
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that cant.

#13 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 09:08 PM

Sentimental value is another point for keeping "scrap" coins.
I've got an 1889 crown that's been in the family for 100 years - it's a miracle it was kept because our family was so poor it was struggling for pennies and shillings let alone having a crown and leaving it lying around!

But I'll never sell it even if it's worth £10000.
Which it isn't.

#14 ski

ski

    Important part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 889 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:sixpences, florins and double florins.

Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:38 PM

when my youngest decided to start collecting, my dad gave him his collection of silver 3d's, im sooooo jealous. but my son who is 15 now understands that whilst their not going to make him rich, they are grandads coins......and that is what coin collecting is all about.
There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that cant.

#15 josie

josie

    Important part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts

Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:29 AM

Just a comment.

Melting coins with precious metal is different melting other precious metal in different form,they can melt jewelries with assay mark others buy them below the selling price as jewelries or melt value same as to coin,well its better to have a money than nothing especially this time.

What will happen when other countries back there coinage in precious metal and if other countries follow,they will redeem old gold
silver coin,if they will not return its better to sell worn precious metal coin,just a comment

#16 DaveG38

DaveG38

    Important part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 924 posts

Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:12 PM

I can see the case for melting down low grade non-collectable 20th century worn out cr*p, such as you find in large boxes at general auctions (leaving out all the rare varieties that can be foudn there). Apart from trying to introduce youngsters to the joys of collecting they have no numismatic value or collectability (is this a word?) and can be scrapped with a clear conscience. Obviously older and better condition coins is a different matter.

What I'm not sure about are the older poor condition coins that we all accumulate. I've got a box of fair to poor condition George III and IV Crowns and half crowns plus some Victorian, which are worth nothing more than scrap and which I guess I could make a nice profit on given the current price of Silver. Should they be melted? I suppose so and yet.....

#17 scott

scott

    Forum God

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,315 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 February 2011 - 01:15 PM

i have one coin i bought under scrap (1882 halfcrown) and i wouldn't consider melting it, afterall, the minting figures on these wern't exactly high in the first place.

#18 argentumandcoins

argentumandcoins

    Not a God, just a man!

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,338 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham, UK
  • Interests:Apart from coins; My 3 sons (youngest born new years day 2012), Newcastle United, Durham CCC, Salmon and Trout fishing, shooting, malt whisky, red wine and good cigars. NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER!!!

Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:49 PM

I can see the case for melting down low grade non-collectable 20th century worn out cr*p, such as you find in large boxes at general auctions (leaving out all the rare varieties that can be foudn there). Apart from trying to introduce youngsters to the joys of collecting they have no numismatic value or collectability (is this a word?) and can be scrapped with a clear conscience. Obviously older and better condition coins is a different matter.

What I'm not sure about are the older poor condition coins that we all accumulate. I've got a box of fair to poor condition George III and IV Crowns and half crowns plus some Victorian, which are worth nothing more than scrap and which I guess I could make a nice profit on given the current price of Silver. Should they be melted? I suppose so and yet.....


Scrap them and re-invest in something nice for your collection would be my advice.

#19 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:44 PM

Where can I have coins melted?

#20 Gary D

Gary D

    Forum God

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suffolk UK
  • Interests:UK predecimal 1900-1967 Farthing to Crown

Posted 27 February 2011 - 09:58 AM

Where can I have coins melted?


Are sovereigns really "coins" as they were largely minted as bullion for foreign exchange and were regularly put into the melting pot and recoined.

#21 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 27 February 2011 - 12:03 PM


Where can I have coins melted?


Are sovereigns really "coins" as they were largely minted as bullion for foreign exchange and were regularly put into the melting pot and recoined.


Modern ones I think should be but the older ones should be preserved rather than melted.

#22 SionGilbey

SionGilbey

    Nearly part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aberystwyth, Wales
  • Interests:Apart from 1797-1967 Quarter Farthings to Shillings (UNC if possible) Classic Cars (especially Bentleys!) and detecting and... sheep.

Posted 31 March 2011 - 06:45 PM

Could rare varieties be melted down unnoticed?

#23 Peckris

Peckris

    Former God (now redundant)

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,743 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 March 2011 - 08:59 PM

Could rare varieties be melted down unnoticed?



Indeed, if some dam' fool sent them off direct to be melted without checking first.

#24 Gary D

Gary D

    Forum God

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suffolk UK
  • Interests:UK predecimal 1900-1967 Farthing to Crown

Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:15 AM


Could rare varieties be melted down unnoticed?



Indeed, if some dam' fool sent them off direct to be melted without checking first.


Mind you, the more that go to the melter the rarer the one's we've got become. :D

#25 josie

josie

    Important part of the furniture

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 767 posts

Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:47 AM

Just posting.

http://oilprice.com/...edible-Run.html

http://www.telegraph...for-a-fall.html

Edited by josie, 01 April 2011 - 10:48 AM.


#26 Peckris

Peckris

    Former God (now redundant)

  • Numismatic Research Group
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,743 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:36 PM



Could rare varieties be melted down unnoticed?



Indeed, if some dam' fool sent them off direct to be melted without checking first.


Mind you, the more that go to the melter the rarer the one's we've got become. :D



A touching faith in the accuracy of price guides, especially their reliability in relation to actual surviving coin numbers! (Though what you say is factually unarguable, of course :) )