1887 Shillings

[declanwmagee 122]

I'm starting to have some fun with my new copy of Davies, and have managed to score a highish (nEF) 1+A 1887 Shilling at a 1+C price, as most sellers don't distinguish. Davies certainly did, suggesting £28 for top grade 1+A, and £7 for 1+C. Not that the values mean much now but it indicates that he reckoned it was about 4 times as difficult to find a good 1+A as the 1+C.

I still have photos for the 9 1887 Shillings that have passed through my hands in the last couple of years, so I went through them and found they were all 1+C. To Davies, it's all about the shape of the tail of the Q in the garter, and Gouby's website concurs. Marvellous.

Glancing though CCGB I came across a sidenote about the pointing of the device that separates the 18 and the 87 of the date, so went back through the 9 photos I have and found that they all point between beads. I'm getting quite a taste for pointings, thanks to Mr Groom, so much easier than "a bit bigger" or "a bit narrower" etc.

Checking my new 1+A, the device is not between beads but ever so slightly to the right of a bead.

So, does anyone know if the pointing of the device CCGB mentions is a direct function of the die letters used by Davies, or was it just chance that all the 1+Cs I've had happened to be "device points between beads".

Sorry if that sounds a bit muddled; I had a tooth out yesterday so there's still a bit of brainfizz going on...

cheers

Declan

[declanwmagee 122]

Pics to make my witterings clearer...

"Normal" 1+C to the left, Scarcer 1+A to the right in both cases.

Question is, does the loopy Q of 1+C always go with the centred device, or are there device variations for each Q variety, do you think?

[Badger 2]

Hi, as far I am aware it is a direct function, all rev A have the same device pointings, all rev B have the same pointings and also all the rev Cs are the same device pointings. I checked a good lot of 1887s a few years ago to see if the same reverses had different device pointings but found them all to be consistent with the A, B or C reverses.

Regards

Badger

[declanwmagee 122]

Hi, as far I am aware it is a direct function, all rev A have the same device pointings, all rev B have the same pointings and also all the rev Cs are the same device pointings. I checked a good lot of 1887s a few years ago to see if the same reverses had different device pointings but found them all to be consistent with the A, B or C reverses.

Regards

Badger

Ah, brilliant - thanks Badger! It would niggle me if i thought that the 3 kinds of 1887 in my database wasn't quite the full picture, semiautistic coinie that I am...

[Badger 2]

The 1889s have a new pairing not listed in Davies if your interested? The 1889s I know of so far. . .

D984 1+C with close spaced 89

D984 1+C with wide spaced 89 (a big difference)

D985 1+D

D986 2+D

D987 3+D

D unlisted 2+C (I found one of these a couple of years back and Peter Davies has confirmed the variety and has came across a few since publishing his book)

Regards

[declanwmagee 122]

The 1889s have a new pairing not listed in Davies if your interested? The 1889s I know of so far. . .

D984 1+C with close spaced 89

D984 1+C with wide spaced 89 (a big difference)

D985 1+D

D986 2+D

D987 3+D

D unlisted 2+C (I found one of these a couple of years back and Peter Davies has confirmed the variety and has came across a few since publishing his book)

Regards

oh bloody hell!

I suppose the nature of this is that completeness is impossible to achieve - not just collecting the coins, but even cataloguing the coins you could get!

keep 'em coming!

[davidrj 194]

oh bloody hell!

I suppose the nature of this is that completeness is impossible to achieve - not just collecting the coins, but even cataloguing the coins you could get!

George V pennies seem to be going that way of late!!!!

David

[Peckris 579]

oh bloody hell!

I suppose the nature of this is that completeness is impossible to achieve - not just collecting the coins, but even cataloguing the coins you could get!

George V pennies seem to be going that way of late!!!!

David

Yes, I'd like to nominate 1914 and 1917 as the only two years there aren't varieties for (yet..), before 1927

[Red Riley 2]

Yes, I'd like to nominate 1914 and 1917 as the only two years there aren't varieties for (yet..), before 1927

Oh come on! Haven't you heard of the '1914 missing toenail' or '1917 cauliflower ear'? Clearly you've not been paying attention.

[1887jubilee 36]

Hi, as far I am aware it is a direct function, all rev A have the same device pointings, all rev B have the same pointings and also all the rev Cs are the same device pointings. I checked a good lot of 1887s a few years ago to see if the same reverses had different device pointings but found them all to be consistent with the A, B or C reverses.

Regards

Badger

Yes I concur with Badger. I have just had a quick look at 17 in my collection and 3 rev A have a large miss formed pellet slightly left of the bead. Similarly 5 rev B have the large miss formed pellet slightly left of the bead but the rim beads are wider. The 10 rev C all have the small pellet between beads. The sample includes a proof rev. C and Proof rev A. ( yes I know it isn't in the book and may just be a specimen). I look forward to hearing if there are any other variations.

[Peckris 579]

Yes, I'd like to nominate 1914 and 1917 as the only two years there aren't varieties for (yet..), before 1927

Oh come on! Haven't you heard of the '1914 missing toenail' or '1917 cauliflower ear'? Clearly you've not been paying attention.

Damn! How could I have forgotten those? I say, you don't have a duplicate 1914TN you could sell me?

[HistoryTreasures 0]

Thanks for writing the post, I had no idea that such varieties existed.

[HistoryTreasures 0]

I have 7 of these in my possession right now, but only one of them has the dot at the bottom pointing to a denticle (to left). All the other 6 have a 'loopy-Q' and the dot goes in between. Is this an accurate ratio?

Edited February 22, 2011 by HistoryTreasures