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1918KN & 1919KN in EF


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#1 1949threepence

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 09:58 PM

Just idly scanning through USA e bay, when I came across this delightful pair of beauties Price as a buy it now roughly £2,200 for both.

Not quite UNC, but given the extreme rarity of these coins at high grade, are they worth the asking price ?

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#2 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:14 AM

Well, short answer, no.

Longer answer, CCGB has them down as £400 and £300 in EF and £100 each in VF. You pays your money and you takes yer choice as to grade, but in either event you would have to say that £2,200 is a touch ambitious.

Mind you, wouldn't be at all surprised if someone pays it, there is at least one nutter at large in the penny community if you remember the Tony Crocker sale at Colin Cooke ?

I liked Red's description of him at the time as having the resources of an Ambramovich and a blancmange for a brain.

Excellent word, blancmange, sounds like some nasty tropical disease, not a pudding.
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#3 Red Riley

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 05:40 PM

Well, short answer, no.

Longer answer, CCGB has them down as £400 and £300 in EF and £100 each in VF. You pays your money and you takes yer choice as to grade, but in either event you would have to say that £2,200 is a touch ambitious.

Mind you, wouldn't be at all surprised if someone pays it, there is at least one nutter at large in the penny community if you remember the Tony Crocker sale at Colin Cooke ?

I liked Red's description of him at the time as having the resources of an Ambramovich and a blancmange for a brain.

Excellent word, blancmange, sounds like some nasty tropical disease, not a pudding.


I must be getting forgetful in my old age, but was that really me?

Edited by Red Riley, 11 April 2010 - 05:41 PM.


#4 1949threepence

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 05:55 AM

Pretty much what I thought, too. Curious nonetheless, given that you very rarely see the KN pair offered in such good grade.

Thanks for the advice ~ hopefully I don't have the brain of a blancmange, and I definitely don't have the resources of a Roman Abramovich !!!

#5 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 09:16 AM

I must be getting forgetful in my old age


Brain going a little blancmangey is it...?
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#6 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 09:51 AM

Pretty much what I thought, too. Curious nonetheless, given that you very rarely see the KN pair offered in such good grade.

Thanks for the advice ~ hopefully I don't have the brain of a blancmange, and I definitely don't have the resources of a Roman Abramovich !!!


Whilst on the subject of matters KN and now H, could you do me a favour and have a look at the 1912H in BU up for sale on Colin Cooke's site (I won't put up a link as it's another dealer) and see what you think ?

I'm happy with the reverse, but not sure about the King.

It's up for £195.

Thanks in anticipation.
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#7 Red Riley

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 12:58 PM

Reasonably well struck but a few bag/later abrasions on the obverse. I would say not far off the going rate but if it were me, the abrasions would probably begin to grate after a while. Generally speaking I think Colin Cookes know their business and you are unlikely to get much of a bargain but on the other hand you're not likely to get seriously stung either.

From the blancmange.

#8 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 04:10 PM

Reasonably well struck but a few bag/later abrasions on the obverse. I would say not far off the going rate but if it were me, the abrasions would probably begin to grate after a while. Generally speaking I think Colin Cookes know their business and you are unlikely to get much of a bargain but on the other hand you're not likely to get seriously stung either.

From the blancmange.


Thanks Red.

Yes, that's pretty much where I come out too, the Obv. is a little bit too knocked about for me.

I see we are of like mind.

Oh, hang on, does that mean.....
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#9 1949threepence

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 05:42 PM

Whilst on the subject of matters KN and now H, could you do me a favour and have a look at the 1912H in BU up for sale on Colin Cooke's site (I won't put up a link as it's another dealer) and see what you think ?

I'm happy with the reverse, but not sure about the King.

It's up for £195.

Thanks in anticipation.


Well an image of it can be seen here~ I uploaded a screenshot to imageshack.

The reverse looks fantastic true BU, as does the obverse to some degree. But I'm not sure whether they are bag marks, or actual score marks at the base of the King's head, not to mention what look like a couple of carbon spots on the reverse, notably between the N & Y of penny, and some dirty marks round the chin on the obverse, plus extensive slight pitting, or looks that way to me. I don't think it's quite worth £195, although it might be if it were truly perfect. I'd say £150 would be nearer the true resale value.

Edited by 1949threepence, 12 April 2010 - 05:48 PM.


#10 £400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:16 PM

Yes,

I've been circling this one for over a year (which in itself tells you something I guess).

It's just not quite there is it.
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#11 Mat

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:33 PM

I recall one selling at W&W for about £860 in GEF, I think it was an 1918 one, either last year or 2008. Sorry I cannot be more specific, maybe some one else can expand on that sale if they remember it.

Mat

#12 azda

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 06:45 PM

400 i suggest that if you have been circling the coin for a year then it means you have some reservations about it, in which case i would say not to bother, or make him an offer on it, tell him your concerns about the OBV and then make your offer and see what he says, he can only say no, or maybe make you a counter offer, so go in at 140 :-)

Edited by azda, 12 April 2010 - 06:45 PM.


#13 £400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 07:08 PM

Point is my friend, it isn't about price.

If it isn't perfect, I don't want it.

And this one isn't perfect, confirmed by the forum (thank you) so I will just have to continue to pace the corridors of time waiting, waiting.

I hate waiting.
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#14 VickySilver

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:48 AM

400, you are a tough customer. Maybe your quest for perfection will leave some more bits for the rest of us peons! I do know what you mean and do not like to have inferior coins. I have a 1919H that whilst better than EF (GEF) just does not "do it" for me, and need a finer specimen & drives me crazy every time I look at it.

#15 Peter

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 01:05 PM

I gain more pleasure from quality non key date coins.
My penny collection includes all the dates but I have a beautiful 1915,1932,1934 & 1938 which I drool over...my 1933 is only GF so I might put it on Ebay <_<

#16 £400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:51 PM

Any chance of a pic of the 1915 and 1934 please ?

My 1915 is AU and I've never seen a quality 1934...

I recall you said you had a 1933 before, wasn't sure whether you were joking or not ?

If so, which one of the 7 (8?) is it ?

Rgds,
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#17 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:43 PM

400, you are a tough customer. Maybe your quest for perfection will leave some more bits for the rest of us peons! I do know what you mean and do not like to have inferior coins. I have a 1919H that whilst better than EF (GEF) just does not "do it" for me, and need a finer specimen & drives me crazy every time I look at it.


We all agree I think.

It's a bit like DIY, you always know where the mistakes are and that's all you can see.

I'm not saying I don't get it wrong sometimes, 'cos I do, but after a while one realises that it's better to wait and buy a diamond than go for something which is not quite there.

What's a Peon ?

Rgds,
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#18 Red Riley

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:20 PM

What's a Peon ?



Not sure, but you don't want to 'peon' a live rail.

I'll get my coat...

#19 1949threepence

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:54 PM



What's a Peon ?



Not sure, but you don't want to 'peon' a live rail.

I'll get my coat...


Post of the thread

Classic :D

(Incidentally, I think a "peon" is an American expression describing a lower working class person ~ maybe equivalent to "pleb" over here)

Edited by 1949threepence, 15 April 2010 - 06:04 PM.


#20 Peckris

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:45 PM

Any chance of a pic of the 1915 and 1934 please ?

My 1915 is AU and I've never seen a quality 1934...

I recall you said you had a 1933 before, wasn't sure whether you were joking or not ?

If so, which one of the 7 (8?) is it ?

Rgds,


I have an Unc 1934 (Mint toned variety) that I got in a Colin Cooke postal auction some years back. Nice.

As for those KNs, the 1919 in that grade is pretty truly rare, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it fetch the asking price. I'm not sure I'd want the (inferior) 1918 as part of the deal though.

#21 Red Riley

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:39 AM

As for those KNs, the 1919 in that grade is pretty truly rare, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it fetch the asking price. I'm not sure I'd want the (inferior) 1918 as part of the deal though.


I'm afraid I agree with you, some of the prices for rarities these days are astounding, but no way would I deal with that seller. He states a strict 'no returns' policy and then concocts some cock and bull story to justify his policy. If the coins are not exactly as described then I think it highly likely that his policy contravenes Canadian law, as it would in the UK but if it push came to shove, trying to resolve any issues across international boundaries would be a nightmare.

#22 1949threepence

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 10:30 PM


As for those KNs, the 1919 in that grade is pretty truly rare, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it fetch the asking price. I'm not sure I'd want the (inferior) 1918 as part of the deal though.


I'm afraid I agree with you, some of the prices for rarities these days are astounding, but no way would I deal with that seller. He states a strict 'no returns' policy and then concocts some cock and bull story to justify his policy. If the coins are not exactly as described then I think it highly likely that his policy contravenes Canadian law, as it would in the UK but if it push came to shove, trying to resolve any issues across international boundaries would be a nightmare.


Absolutely right. This is what he says:-

PLEASE NOTE: THERE ARE NO RETURNS DUE TO A VIP COIN IN FDC SOLD BY ME LAST YEAR WAS RETURNED AFTER THE BUYER HAD SCRATCHED IT. I HAD IMAGES TO SHOW THE SCRATCH WAS NOT THERE WHEN SENT BUT EBAY REFUSED TO SUPPORT ME SO I REFUNDED, THAT COIN IS NOW RUINED, THAT BUYER WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BID ON THESE ITEMS AND I WILL REMOVE HIS BIDS IF THEY ARE PLACED.


Why would a buyer want to scratch a FDC item they had just bought ? It can't be done by accident, and requires some effort to actually do. So that is a cock and bull story.

#23 1949threepence

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 02:45 PM


Any chance of a pic of the 1915 and 1934 please ?

My 1915 is AU and I've never seen a quality 1934...

I recall you said you had a 1933 before, wasn't sure whether you were joking or not ?

If so, which one of the 7 (8?) is it ?

Rgds,


I have an Unc 1934 (Mint toned variety) that I got in a Colin Cooke postal auction some years back. Nice.

As for those KNs, the 1919 in that grade is pretty truly rare, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it fetch the asking price. I'm not sure I'd want the (inferior) 1918 as part of the deal though.


Another one going in the on line coins site (Nick Schofield) for £585. Although I think the EF description is majorly optimistic. Maybe GVF at a stretch. So the price seems high for what it is.

click here

#24 £400 for a Penny ?

£400 for a Penny ?

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:31 PM

"Brown EF" ???

That's a new one on me.

Oh, and if that's EF, then I'm quite good looking...
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#25 Peckris

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:14 PM

Oh, and if that's EF, then I'm quite good looking...


My daughter's just cancelled her blind date with you :lol:

#26 Red Riley

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 08:46 AM

"Brown EF" ???

That's a new one on me.

Oh, and if that's EF, then I'm quite good looking...

The obverse is a lot worse than the reverse which shows the slightly odd pattern of wear on the side of the face but very little on the fingers which is usually the touchstone. I go GVF/NEF

Arguably the obverse condition is largely irrelevant on a coin where you are only interested in a small portion of the reverse but I think that given the current state of the market, the price may not be that optimistic sadly.

Edited by Red Riley, 18 April 2010 - 08:52 AM.


#27 scott

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:42 AM

poor striking doesnt help, but i'm going for VF

#28 Peckris

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:13 PM

The obverse is a lot worse than the reverse which shows the slightly odd pattern of wear on the side of the face but very little on the fingers which is usually the touchstone. I go GVF/NEF

Arguably the obverse condition is largely irrelevant on a coin where you are only interested in a small portion of the reverse but I think that given the current state of the market, the price may not be that optimistic sadly.


I go along with your grading Red. I would just add though - there's a lot more hair on that obverse than you often see on even EF examples of 1918-19H & KNs. Those dies took a hell of a beating, and sometimes there's very little hair to be seen at all, just a blur, while the rest of the coin looks pristine.

#29 1949threepence

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 06:41 AM

Just idly scanning through USA e bay, when I came across this delightful pair of beauties Price as a buy it now roughly £2,200 for both.

Not quite UNC, but given the extreme rarity of these coins at high grade, are they worth the asking price ?


Just as a matter of interest, this is now a re-listed item as the 1919KN only @ $2299.00, which at today's pound - dollar exchange rate of £1.5372, equates to £1495.58.

So rare at that grade, it might just be worth it.

#30 Peckris

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 09:55 PM


Just idly scanning through USA e bay, when I came across this delightful pair of beauties Price as a buy it now roughly £2,200 for both.

Not quite UNC, but given the extreme rarity of these coins at high grade, are they worth the asking price ?


Just as a matter of interest, this is now a re-listed item as the 1919KN only @ $2299.00, which at today's pound - dollar exchange rate of £1.5372, equates to £1495.58.

So rare at that grade, it might just be worth it.


I'm still far from convinced by that Unc rating by the seller. It looks no more than EF to me judging by Britannia's fingers on the trident and the hair on the portrait. If it really was Unc I'd be very interested in it, but right now I'm a bit ho hum (though I'd agree it is RARE even in EF).