1984 M. J. Freeman Auction Catologue for sale

[Coppers 57]

M. J. Freeman's personal auction catalog for the 1984 sale of his collection is currently on ebay...

Link to auction

[VickySilver 775]

Ouch, that is a big number to start with! Good luck to whomever wins it...Wonder if there is any valuable commentary bits in the margins?

[Rob 2,998]

That's silly. You can pick one up for £10-15.

Unless it has been annotated with a full list of where the coins were purchased to record or enhance the provenances I can think of no reason why anyone would buy it. Even then, the added value would only be a factor of 2 or 3. The provenances of the 4 coins I have that are clearly identifiable from his collection were freely communicated to me when I asked, so I can't think what else there is to offer.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Rob

[Peckris 579]

It's a bit poignant though. Has Michael fallen on hard times I wonder?

[1949threepence 3,366]

I somehow doubt it will be sold with a starting bid that high.

It might go with a "buy it now" of £30.

Edited December 1, 2009 by 1949threepence

[Rob 2,998]

The picture of the last page where there are Weyl patterns makes interesting reading. There are names assigned to the winning bidders which are found nowhere else and are not familiar to anyone who attended sales on a routine basis. I think they are fictional on the grounds that you would get blocks of 3 or 4 lots assigned to the same (unheard of) name followed by another block of 3 or 4 lots to a different unrecognised name. This happened on more than one occasion in this and other sales around this time. The implication is that these were unsold lots being bought in. It makes interesting reading when you analyse some of the sale results at this time as it suggests that sales were not so strong as might be assumed. Certainly the market was quite weak in the first half of the 80's having fallen by 30-40% in about '82-3. I suspect these were actually unsold lots - eg. the aluminium 1887 1/2d was acquired later by Joanna Tansley (sold at DNW 28/9/05 lot 382) and was bought from Patrick Deane (a dealer) shortly after the sale which lends credence to this idea.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Rob

[VickySilver 775]

Rob, you no doubt have kept track of his (Freeman's) coins but it seems that he has through relatively recent times had coins from possibly his collection on ebay. I seem to recall corresponding with him about one before I knew it was him & don't remember his ebay nomen.

[Rob 2,998]

Rob, you no doubt have kept track of his (Freeman's) coins but it seems that he has through relatively recent times had coins from possibly his collection on ebay. I seem to recall corresponding with him about one before I knew it was him & don't remember his ebay nomen.

He offered me a trio of decimal patterns, one of which was identifiable as being from his collection. I think there were probably more though. As MJF usually prices them high to start with and I already had one of the varieties on offer I didn't bother chasing it up. I think it is possible that he still has coins from the collection. You could always ask the question.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Rob

[Guest Pattern]

The picture of the last page where there are Weyl patterns makes interesting reading. There are names assigned to the winning bidders which are found nowhere else and are not familiar to anyone who attended sales on a routine basis. I think they are fictional on the grounds that you would get blocks of 3 or 4 lots assigned to the same (unheard of) name followed by another block of 3 or 4 lots to a different unrecognised name. This happened on more than one occasion in this and other sales around this time. The implication is that these were unsold lots being bought in. It makes interesting reading when you analyse some of the sale results at this time as it suggests that sales were not so strong as might be assumed. Certainly the market was quite weak in the first half of the 80's having fallen by 30-40% in about '82-3. I suspect these were actually unsold lots - eg. the aluminium 1887 1/2d was acquired later by Joanna Tansley (sold at DNW 28/9/05 lot 382) and was bought from Patrick Deane (a dealer) shortly after the sale which lends credence to this idea.

I was at that auction and kept a note of who bought what. The names bounced around the room like a squash ball. My impression was there was a general atmosphere of people not wanting to bid because of the seller. I bought a few things there, and as you have noted, later. This was the golden era for patterns that were not silver or gold, most people had little idea about them and the decimal trials were a gift.

[Rob 2,998]

The picture of the last page where there are Weyl patterns makes interesting reading. There are names assigned to the winning bidders which are found nowhere else and are not familiar to anyone who attended sales on a routine basis. I think they are fictional on the grounds that you would get blocks of 3 or 4 lots assigned to the same (unheard of) name followed by another block of 3 or 4 lots to a different unrecognised name. This happened on more than one occasion in this and other sales around this time. The implication is that these were unsold lots being bought in. It makes interesting reading when you analyse some of the sale results at this time as it suggests that sales were not so strong as might be assumed. Certainly the market was quite weak in the first half of the 80's having fallen by 30-40% in about '82-3. I suspect these were actually unsold lots - eg. the aluminium 1887 1/2d was acquired later by Joanna Tansley (sold at DNW 28/9/05 lot 382) and was bought from Patrick Deane (a dealer) shortly after the sale which lends credence to this idea.

I was at that auction and kept a note of who bought what. The names bounced around the room like a squash ball. My impression was there was a general atmosphere of people not wanting to bid because of the seller. I bought a few things there, and as you have noted, later. This was the golden era for patterns that were not silver or gold, most people had little idea about them and the decimal trials were a gift.

If a few lots means just that, then welcome Joanna. Your name is spelt incorrectly in my ex-Seaby copy of the Freeman catalogue, but ties in with the DNW sale attributions.

If I am right in this, you did quite well out of me in DNW and with hindsight I should have bought a few more pieces.

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

[quote name=

My impression was there was a general atmosphere of people not wanting to bid because of the seller.

Innocent question - why so ?

[Red Riley 2]

Rob, you no doubt have kept track of his (Freeman's) coins but it seems that he has through relatively recent times had coins from possibly his collection on ebay. I seem to recall corresponding with him about one before I knew it was him & don't remember his ebay nomen.

Wasn't it something like 'wosip' or similar?

[Rob 2,998]

Rob, you no doubt have kept track of his (Freeman's) coins but it seems that he has through relatively recent times had coins from possibly his collection on ebay. I seem to recall corresponding with him about one before I knew it was him & don't remember his ebay nomen.

Wasn't it something like 'wosip' or similar?

He used to call himself Wossip, but is now using Coriander1860.

[Guest Terry GBIE]

Would someone be kind enough to provide reference details for the catalog that contained the disposition of the Michael Freeman collection in 1984.  I have the 1877 Ex-Freeman Farthing the one listed with the nice mint bloom & would like to see if I could track down the catalog that the coins were sold in.  Thanks, Terry.

[Colin G. 147]

Welcome to the forum, would love to see some images of the farthing. The sale was at Christies 23rd October 1984 - Lot 174 was the 1877 farthing

[Terry GBIECoins 3]

Thanks Colin G, for the info about my 1877 Proof Farthing.  Sure, no problem, on my next trip to the bank vault I will fetch it and photograph it and post a link to the image.  I purchased the Ex-Freeman Farthing in the mid-1980's from a J.V. Thomas who had 'flipped' it to me after purchasing it from Colin D. Cooke.  Some years later in a phone conversation with Colin, I had mentioned to him that I was the one who ended up with that 1877 Farthing, Colin said that he wished that he hadn't sold it.  I believe the piece carries an R18 rarity rating giving it a possible mintage of 6-15, but at the time of my purchase five such pieces were accounted for, not sure how many are currently known.  All for now & thanks again, Terry of GBIECoins  PS I remember doing some business years ago with The Farthing Specialist Ltd, as well as M. Coeshaw, John Welsh, E.J. Parsons, F.A. Dyson, D.V. Curtis, Michael Ewins, Europa Numismatics, Colin Cooke, of course, and others in the UK.

[Terry GBIECoins 3]

Thanks again, Colin G, for the info.  I finally got that 1877 out of hiding and filmed it, links to various size saves are below including ones showing the provenance tags.  I was happy to see the coin again and to film it, but just as happy that it's back in the bank vault.  Thanks again for your help. Terry GBIECoins.Net

 http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877ProofFarthing800x400.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877ProofFarthingMedium.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877ProofFarthingLarge.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877ProofFarthingWithProvenance800x607.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877ProofFarthingWithProvenanceMedium.jpg

 

[1949threepence 3,366]

On 2/12/2017 at 0:06 AM, Guest Terry GBIE said:

Would someone be kind enough to provide reference details for the catalog that contained the disposition of the Michael Freeman collection in 1984.  I have the 1877 Ex-Freeman Farthing the one listed with the nice mint bloom & would like to see if I could track down the catalog that the coins were sold in.  Thanks, Terry.

If you're interested, you can obtain a copy of the Christie's catalogue for the Freeman sale of 23.10.84, from The Fitzwilliam Museum. Only a copy, but better than nothing - link

Scroll down to Christies and you'll see that the sale is there. There is an e mail address you can contact. 

[Terry GBIECoins 3]

On 2/26/2017 at 4:29 AM, 1949threepence said:

... you can obtain a copy of the Christie's catalogue for the Freeman sale of 23.10.84, from The Fitzwilliam Museum ...

Thank you, 1949 3d.  They were very helpful.  Below are links to the six pages sent by Fitzwilliam responsive to my request, relevant to the 1877 Proof Farthing.  The pages enumerated 1-6 below are: Catalogue cover page, Inside title page, auction listings including lot 174, photoplates including the 1877 Farthing, and two pages of prices realized.  Additionally, for 1949 aka Mike, a photofinish of a pair of Brass Threepence (1946 & 1949) along with their sales tag as purchased from Colin Cooke.  Colin had a very distinctive handwriting.  Thanks to all who helped with information above.  Terry / GBIECoins

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-1.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-2.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-3.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-4.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-5.jpg

http://gbiecoins.net/images/1877FarthingLot174Christie23Oct1984-6.jpg

Edited March 7, 2017 by Terry GBIECoins
forgot to include link to page 5

[1949threepence 3,366]

Thanks Terry. Pleased to have been of some help