Who/What is Satin ?

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Sorry to be lazy, but my search Fu is weak at the moment. I keep seeing reference to a Satin number when looking up early Bun Heads. Who/What is Satin and if it's what I think it is (i.e. another source of reference for pennies) where can I get a copy ?

TIA

[Chingford 166]

Sorry to be lazy, but my search Fu is weak at the moment. I keep seeing reference to a Satin number when looking up early Bun Heads. Who/What is Satin and if it's what I think it is (i.e. another source of reference for pennies) where can I get a copy ?

TIA

Satin references are the creation of John Jerrams of Satin Coins, he published a paperback in 2001.

'The early british bronze 'bun' pennies, 1860 to 1865 (inclusive), and their varieties (Currency issues)

The publication was researched with the aid of the late Laurie Bamford, Bob Franks, Michael Gouby, Bernie Workman, Dr D Ball , Paul Holland and other enthusiasts.

John

Edited October 6, 2009 by Chingford

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

That's what I wanted to know !

Thanks very much.

[Peckris 579]

My 'Satin' is a yellow bound pamphlet, typed & duplicated rather than printed, and with hand-drawn illustrations - it definitely predates 2001. I wonder if it is a first strike or even a proof? Must be worth a bob or two!

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

My 'Satin' is a yellow bound pamphlet, typed & duplicated rather than printed, and with hand-drawn illustrations - it definitely predates 2001. I wonder if it is a first strike or even a proof? Must be worth a bob or two!

I have 3 different editions.... 1999, 2001, & 2003... the most recent......

Occasionally, one will appear on Ebay....

[AardHawk 73]

Do Satin Coins have a web site? Any search I do brings up a load of US sites talking about satin finished coins, whatever they are.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

Do Satin Coins have a web site? Any search I do brings up a load of US sites talking about satin finished coins, whatever they are.

Satin refers to the reference number in a book by John Jerrams..

"The Early British Bronze "Bun" Pennies 1860 to 1865 (Inclusive) And Their Varieties"

Satin Reference - Compiled and Produced by John Jerrams

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Do Satin Coins have a web site? Any search I do brings up a load of US sites talking about satin finished coins, whatever they are.

I haven't managed to find one. I phoned Spink earlier today, they don't have the book in stock, but I did manage to find an old thread on here which gives JJerrams address as:

PO Box 63, Stockport, Cheshire, SK4 5BU

That's as far as I have got.....

[Peckris 579]

Do Satin Coins have a web site? Any search I do brings up a load of US sites talking about satin finished coins, whatever they are.

I haven't managed to find one. I phoned Spink earlier today, they don't have the book in stock, but I did manage to find an old thread on here which gives JJerrams address as:

PO Box 63, Stockport, Cheshire, SK4 5BU

That's as far as I have got.....

You could try that address - I wrote to him once to get the booklet, and we had a laugh about his postcode. By the way, my edition is 1999, but in it he talks about the 'previous issue', so there must be a very rare first strike somewhere !!

[Chingford 166]

Do Satin Coins have a web site? Any search I do brings up a load of US sites talking about satin finished coins, whatever they are.

I haven't managed to find one. I phoned Spink earlier today, they don't have the book in stock, but I did manage to find an old thread on here which gives JJerrams address as:

PO Box 63, Stockport, Cheshire, SK4 5BU

That's as far as I have got.....

You could try that address - I wrote to him once to get the booklet, and we had a laugh about his postcode. By the way, my edition is 1999, but in it he talks about the 'previous issue', so there must be a very rare first strike somewhere !!

I have been in touch with John Jerrams via Michael Gouby, I invited him to the Forum regarding this thread and peoples interest in his work,

he sent back a reply to Michael which was forwarded to me.

Hi John,

Here is John Jerram's answer to my email and yours.

I think he has moved on !

All the best

Michael

----- Original Message -----

From: stephen jerrams

To: michael

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 6:33 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: Satin Coins - Reference Work

Dear Michael...Thank-you very much for your email...I really am amazed at how many people seem to want a copy of my work, now that I have no wish to continue.You have to draw the line some where and my time came in 2003...I do have someone willing to turn the booklet into a book but his progress has been remarkably slow - maybe I could just photo-copy the whole effort again just so that a few more collectors can use the information !! - but I really do have other things to concern myself with nowadays.....All the best for now...Cheers, John(Jerrams)

--- On Mon, 12/10/09, michael wrote:

From: michael

Subject: Fw: Satin Coins

To: "Jerrams, John (Satin)" < >

Date: Monday, 12 October, 2009, 9:44 AM

Hi John,

I received the following email from a colleague this morning. So if you have some copies of your book left there are customers out there wanting them !

I spent the weekend reading proofs of my next books and after some minor corrections it should be ready for publication in early November.

All the best

Michael

To: michael@michael-coins.co.uk

Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:15 PM

Subject: Satin Coins

Michael, I think you mentioning knowing John Jerrams from previous emails.

Seems Tony Crockers sale has reawakened the interest in Johns publication and a few people on Predecimal forum are actively looking to find a copy of his work.

I am sure you mentioned he has retired from coins but thought I would mention it in case he wanted to contribute or offer copies his work to forum members wanting copies.

Link below

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?...amp;#entry34230

John

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

Well, thank you for your efforts on my behalf, seems I shall either have to wait for the new Gouby or get lucky on ebay.

But do you know what - in the intervening time I've decided that I have my own definition of what is a variety and what isn't. Signature/no signature - very exciting. Rock/no rock, pepperpot lighthouse/skinny lighthouse - all good stuff. Trident pointing to a tooth/pointing to a space ? I'm glazing over...

Someone referred to hyper varietals, I think i'll pass - the more so if they cost £19,000

[Red Riley 2]

Well, thank you for your efforts on my behalf, seems I shall either have to wait for the new Gouby or get lucky on ebay.

But do you know what - in the intervening time I've decided that I have my own definition of what is a variety and what isn't. Signature/no signature - very exciting. Rock/no rock, pepperpot lighthouse/skinny lighthouse - all good stuff. Trident pointing to a tooth/pointing to a space ? I'm glazing over...

Someone referred to hyper varietals, I think i'll pass - the more so if they cost £19,000

A man after my own heart! But it really is difficult to decide what is a 'real' variety and what isn't. My 1860-1970 penny collection stopped at a grand total of 120 coins becaue that was all I could fit in my cabinet, and there's precious little left that floats my boat. If you read Michael Gouby's 'British Bronze Penny 1860-1970' , he certainly draws the line somewhere; (re a 1937 obverse 'variety') ' Some pennies in 1937 have the upright limb of the 'P' of 'IMP' pointing directly to a tooth in the border, rather than just to the right of the tooth. As this is the only discernable difference, the author feels that it does not warrant an extra entry'). Can you imagine the 1863 penny guy explaining to his nearest and dearest why he has just spent £19k on a penny and how it differs from one worth a fiver?

[Rob 3,002]

Can you imagine the 1863 penny guy explaining to his nearest and dearest why he has just spent £19k on a penny and how it differs from one worth a fiver?

I suspect he will be able to buy her off if she objects.

[AardHawk 73]

My 1860-1970 penny collection stopped at a grand total of 120 coins becaue that was all I could fit in my cabinet

Why so many? If minor changes in design don't count then we have only one reverse and eight distinct obverses.

Edited October 14, 2009 by AardHawk

[scott 129]

19k on a penny? how rare is this? it would have to be unique and gold to even warrent that imo

but yea, i'm wondering what 1862 no signiture is too,

[Red Riley 2]

My 1860-1970 penny collection stopped at a grand total of 120 coins becaue that was all I could fit in my cabinet

Why so many? If minor changes in design don't count then we have only one reverse and eight distinct obverses.

It's really a case of what turns you on, and I'm afraid hyper-varieties just don't do it for me, I'd rather broaden my horizons and go collect roubles or something. If you have 500 varieties of penny, then that's fine if it's what you want. 120 does actually include a fair few varieties if you work it out.

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit dismissive, I didn't mean to be, but for me a collection that I couldn't make interesting to a non-numismatist (and few would be enthralled by varieties of the 'pointing to gap or tooth' type) just wouldn't do.

[Peckris 579]

My 1860-1970 penny collection stopped at a grand total of 120 coins becaue that was all I could fit in my cabinet

Why so many? If minor changes in design don't count then we have only one reverse and eight distinct obverses.

It's really a case of what turns you on, and I'm afraid hyper-varieties just don't do it for me, I'd rather broaden my horizons and go collect roubles or something. If you have 500 varieties of penny, then that's fine if it's what you want. 120 does actually include a fair few varieties if you work it out.

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit dismissive, I didn't mean to be, but for me a collection that I couldn't make interesting to a non-numismatist (and few would be enthralled by varieties of the 'pointing to gap or tooth' type) just wouldn't do.

I'm with you there Red. I would like the 1897 high tide, and the 1903 open 3, but after that, the ones I REALLY want are impossible :

1922 with 1927 reverse

1933

1952

1954

!!

I guess with buns, some people make a whole career out of the things, but I can only get excited by the more obvious variations.

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

Here's something to whet your appetite... at least you'll have a picture....

I'm with you there Red. I would like the 1897 high tide, and the 1903 open 3, but after that, the ones I REALLY want are impossible :

1922 with 1927 reverse

1933

1952

1954

!!

I guess with buns, some people make a whole career out of the things, but I can only get excited by the more obvious variations.

[Coppers 57]

Here's something to whet your appetite... at least you'll have a picture....

Neat -- where did you 'find' it?

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

Here's something to whet your appetite... at least you'll have a picture....

Neat -- where did you 'find' it?

In my collection....

I don't have the others, although I might have pics of them.... I'll check

[Gary D 76]

Here's something to whet your appetite... at least you'll have a picture....

Neat -- where did you 'find' it?

In my collection....

I don't have the others, although I might have pics of them.... I'll check

Here's 3 out of 4. I was offered a 1952 but it was not a good one and bit expensive so I declined it.

[scott 129]

ay? who has those?

[AardHawk 73]

I'm with you there Red. I would like the 1897 high tide, and the 1903 open 3, but after that, the ones I REALLY want are impossible :

1922 with 1927 reverse

1933

1952

1954

!!

I guess with buns, some people make a whole career out of the things, but I can only get excited by the more obvious variations.

Surely those are all just date varieties, what about a 1937.

[Red Riley 2]

Somebody either knows a good forger or a good website!

[£400 for a Penny ? 0]

But it really is difficult to decide what is a 'real' variety and what isn't.

It seems to me that 'date variants' are very much in vogue at the moment. I submitted what I thought of as an entirely normal (nice, but normal) 1896 to a grader. It came back categorised as 'close 96'. Yes, ok, on further investigation, other '96' are further apart, but...

Michael, on his webbo takes a 'not really interested' stance about date width variations - not to put words in his mouth, but it seems others see benefit in convincing us all that we should mortgage a child, for a thou of separation between numerals on hand altered dies.

We know why of course, if the pit is seething with penny collectors with foam on their cheeks, it's all good news for the folk selling the pennies isn't it ?

Overheated.

I don't smoke anymore, sometimes I wish I did - there's a nice sunset here just now....