When were the 1970 / 1971 proof sets first issued?

[Peckris 579]

A common misconception has it that they were issued in 1970 and 1971 respectively. I even read an article (linked from this very site) that says the 1970 set was issued in 1968! I think the writer must have been thinking of the blue plastic decimal wallets...

I recently corrected the Wikipedia entry on this, so it would be good if anyone had an authoritative source. Certainly the leaflet inside the 1970 set talks about specific denominations in terms of "... WAS demonetised on 31st August 1971" (my capitals), suggesting a 1972 issue at the earliest.

ESC (1974) says of the 1970 set : "These sets are still being produced dated 1970. Not more than 750,000 will be struck."

....................................1971 set : "Up to April 1974, 260,000 sets had been made, all dated 1971."

Interestingly, although the text was clearly written in 1974, no mention is made of the 1972 or 1973 proof sets, implying that they did not appear until even later.

If anyone has additional sources to add, I'd love to hear.

[1949threepence 3,366]

I'm not sure about the 1970 lsd set, but I'm sure I read somewhere years ago, that 1971 was issued from 1973 onwards, and 1972 to 1976, was issued in 1976 itself.

I read this in about 1991. Not sure what it was in now, and my memory may be faulty. But I know that 1976 came into it somewhere.

[1949threepence 3,366]

I had an idea and decided to look at the leaflet in my 1970 lsd set. Often such things have a production date on them, like 11/70 or some such. Whilst this brown concertina type leaflet doesn't have any such inscription, it does say that "the threepence was demonetised from 31st August 1971" ~ not will be, but from. Thus implying that the production took place after this date, at the very least.

It also says, "like the threepence the penny was demonetised from 31st August 1971".

[1949threepence 3,366]

Ignore previous post ~ you'd already sussed that out, and I hadn't read yours properly.

[1949threepence 3,366]

I have found some vague information about the 1970 set. It is on Tony Clayton's site

During the Coronation Year of Elizabeth II a proof set was issued in a maroon leatherette case, but no more were issued until the change to decimal coinage in 1971. A few years after the event a 'Last of the Lsd' Proof Set dated 1970 was issued. Interestingly the halfpenny and halfcrown had both been demonetised by 1970.

I suspect that precise information is going to be difficult to come by. You could e mail the Royal Mint, but don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. They still haven't contacted me about that enquiry regarding 2008 baby sets, that I made about 6 weeks ago.

[1949threepence 3,366]

I'm sure I read somewhere years ago, that 1971 was issued from 1973 onwards, and 1972 to 1976, was issued in 1976 itself.

I read this in about 1991. Not sure what it was in now, and my memory may be faulty. But I know that 1976 came into it somewhere.

Try this

Coins (Purchases from Mint)Sir Anthony Meyer Written Answers — February 14, 1977

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects the Royal Mint to fulfil the orders for proof sets of coins from 1972 to 1976 which were advertised in February 1976.

Enough research. I'll shut up now

[scottishmoney 18]

I suspect that precise information is going to be difficult to come by. You could e mail the Royal Mint, but don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. They still haven't contacted me about that enquiry regarding 2008 baby sets, that I made about 6 weeks ago.

Now don't be in such a rush, they are still busy cranking out the 1970 LSD sets!

[Sylvester 15]

I suspect that precise information is going to be difficult to come by. You could e mail the Royal Mint, but don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. They still haven't contacted me about that enquiry regarding 2008 baby sets, that I made about 6 weeks ago.

Now don't be in such a rush, they are still busy cranking out the 1970 LSD sets!

And 1925 sovereigns!

Actually when I read the original poster's comments it brought back vague memories of reading about this somewhere... where though now there's a question I can't answer.

[The Dark Numismatist 0]

I am not 100 per cent sure, but I did buy the 1970 and 1971 sets at the time, and I am fairly certain that they were first issued on the correct dates. I could be wrong, it was nearly forty years ago...

[Chris Perkins 223]

Also relating to 1970s coins and their dates of issue not being the same as the dates on the coins: I've just opened 3 Royal Mint lead sealed canvass bags containing 2p coins. Each of them had a mid 1976 date stamped on the tag, from Aug to November. But all the coins in all 3 bags are actually 1978!!

How can a 1978 bag get stamped with a 1976 date? They surely were not making 1978 coins in 1976?

[Sylvester 15]

Also relating to 1970s coins and their dates of issue not being the same as the dates on the coins: I've just opened 3 Royal Mint lead sealed canvass bags containing 2p coins. Each of them had a mid 1976 date stamped on the tag, from Aug to November. But all the coins in all 3 bags are actually 1978!!

How can a 1978 bag get stamped with a 1976 date? They surely were not making 1978 coins in 1976?

Who knows! It wouldn't surprise me.

Out of interest when exactly did Tower Hill mint close? I know the mint transferred to Wales with decimalisation, but were the '1967' predecimal coins all struck at the old Tower Hill site?

[Peckris 579]

I'm sure I read somewhere years ago, that 1971 was issued from 1973 onwards, and 1972 to 1976, was issued in 1976 itself.

I read this in about 1991. Not sure what it was in now, and my memory may be faulty. But I know that 1976 came into it somewhere.

Try this

Coins (Purchases from Mint)Sir Anthony Meyer Written Answers — February 14, 1977

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects the Royal Mint to fulfil the orders for proof sets of coins from 1972 to 1976 which were advertised in February 1976.

Enough research. I'll shut up now

No, that's excellent 1949 - thanks. That parliamentary Q&A is exactly the sort of authoritative source I was looking for.

Out of interest when exactly did Tower Hill mint close? I know the mint transferred to Wales with decimalisation, but were the '1967' predecimal coins all struck at the old Tower Hill site?

Yes I'm pretty sure that's the case - the Welsh Mint opened specifically to do the massive decimal recoinage, so Tower Mint would have handled the 1967 jobs. Though bear in mind that the halfcrown and halfpenny ceased production by 1969, no shillings were issued for 1967, florins ceased after 1967 with the issue of the 1968 10p, and the sixpence was scheduled for demonetisation before its reprieve, so my guess is that the only job they had to do from 1969 was churn out some pennies and 3d bits. I suppose all those 1967 pennies weren't actually needed, they just gave the Mint workers something to do !

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

[Sylvester 15]

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

Presumably staff at Tower Hill mint had alot of time on their hands, is it possible they might have undertaken some of the work?

Surely Wales would have had enough on coining the decimal circulation issues from 1968-1970, but I presume 1972 was a quiet year? Only the 25p issued that year! If the proof sets weren't issued until 1976.

[1949threepence 3,366]

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

You may also be interested in this link, especially the entry for 1974 !!!

I like investigating hard to uncover facts, and this is really piecing together a difficult and obscure timeline, of events from the pre-internet era, some decades ago, which would not have attracted much attention at the time, and hence tend to get subsequently buried.

[Rob 3,002]

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

You may also be interested in this link, especially the entry for 1974 !!!

That is an advert in a newspaper by a retailer, so doesn't necessarily reflect the date of issue. It is the first time the advertiser had offered the product.

[1949threepence 3,366]

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

You may also be interested in this link, especially the entry for 1974 !!!

That is an advert in a newspaper by a retailer, so doesn't necessarily reflect the date of issue. It is the first time the advertiser had offered the product.

Fair point, Rob. But I'm simply following up possible clues. This was not the easiest question to find a definitive answer to.

[Peckris 579]

That set of links was useful 1949 - despite the infuriating newspaper archives not letting you view the full article (god that sends me demented - do they really think they can outrun free data as encapsulated by the likes of Google and Wikipedia? They will go under soon enough if they don't allow people to access stuff.)

Mind you it doesn't give the start date though it does imply that in 1974 the 1971 set was a new product. And it could well be true also that 1972 saw work begin on the 1970 sets, there being little else to do! However, I'm 90% sure that the 1971 proofs were the first, and the 1970 sets followed (and they were definitely the first two sets - ESC 1974 confirms that).

Here's a suggested timeline :

1972 - 1974 : 1971 sets produced, maybe not offered for sale until 1974?

1972? - ??? : 1970 sets produced

1974/5 - 1976 : 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 sets produced, then sold from 1976

[Sylvester 15]

Here's a suggested timeline :

1972 - 1974 : 1971 sets produced, maybe not offered for sale until 1974?

1972? - ??? : 1970 sets produced

1974/5 - 1976 : 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 sets produced, then sold from 1976

The question here is was 1974/5 the manufacture date of these sets or merely the first release for sale date?

I just find it hard to believe that the only thing the British Mint did in 1972 was the 1970 sets and the 1972 crowns (ignoring their foreign contracts). There were no sovereigns/gold that year, no regular coinages minted that year. Maybe it could be argued that they minted the 1973 circ stuff throughout 1972? Surely it would have been a quiet enough time to manufacture (if not release for several years) the 1970-73 proof sets?

Just a thought.

[Peckris 579]

Here's a suggested timeline :

1972 - 1974 : 1971 sets produced, maybe not offered for sale until 1974?

1972? - ??? : 1970 sets produced

1974/5 - 1976 : 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 sets produced, then sold from 1976

The question here is was 1974/5 the manufacture date of these sets or merely the first release for sale date?

I just find it hard to believe that the only thing the British Mint did in 1972 was the 1970 sets and the 1972 crowns (ignoring their foreign contracts). There were no sovereigns/gold that year, no regular coinages minted that year. Maybe it could be argued that they minted the 1973 circ stuff throughout 1972? Surely it would have been a quiet enough time to manufacture (if not release for several years) the 1970-73 proof sets?

Just a thought.

Well that's an interesting idea, but it leads to another question : if all the sets were begun in 1972, why weren't they sold until later ? I suppose we would really need to see the Mint Reports from 1971 to 1976 to get a definitive answer.

I'm also thinking - much of the new Mint's output was fully automated, so they would have probably only needed to hire some extra inspectors and machine minders (or take them from Tower) for the big pre-1971 push. After that, who knows? Perhaps in 1972 they started on weighing and sorting the pre-decimal withdrawals before sending them all for meltdown - I can't see them having much time for that in 1971.

[Sylvester 15]

Perhaps in 1972 they started on weighing and sorting the pre-decimal withdrawals before sending them all for meltdown - I can't see them having much time for that in 1971.

I hadn't thought of that! That's a good point, I mean there would have been a lot of coins there. Just imagine been able to search through that lot! I could have gone through all the half crowns hunting for silver.

[scottishmoney 18]

I can fathom wanting the 1970 proof set after the fact, but in 1974 etc would you really be chaffed if you missed out on the 1972?

[AardHawk 73]

I just find it hard to believe that the only thing the British Mint did in 1972 was the 1970 sets and the 1972 crowns (ignoring their foreign contracts).

The Royal Mint report #103 for 1.4.1972 - 31.3.1973 says for

1/2p Reported 274,800,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

1p Reported 130,000,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

10p Reported 116,050,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

50p Reported 5.036,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

Also, 79,415 1973 EEC 50p proof and 586,554 1970 Lsd sets produced.

[Peckris 579]

I can fathom wanting the 1970 proof set after the fact, but in 1974 etc would you really be chaffed if you missed out on the 1972?

If I knew they were only coins ever to carry the date 1972, I'd want one! In fact, in 1978 the first proof sets I ever bought were the 1970 set and the 1972 set.

I just find it hard to believe that the only thing the British Mint did in 1972 was the 1970 sets and the 1972 crowns (ignoring their foreign contracts).

The Royal Mint report #103 for 1.4.1972 - 31.3.1973 says for

1/2p Reported 274,800,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

1p Reported 130,000,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

10p Reported 116,050,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

50p Reported 5.036,000 struck between 1.4.1972 and 31.3.73, but not dated 1972.

Also, 79,415 1973 EEC 50p proof and 586,554 1970 Lsd sets produced.

Interesting - though it doesn't say exactly when during that 12-month they were minted. Could be that they started on 1973s towards the end of 1972? Good to have those figures though. And it looks like the bulk of the 1970 sets were minted in 1972/3 - now we're getting somewhere!

[The Dark Numismatist 0]

I stand corrected on this, as I say my memory is a little faulty trying to think back so far! I remember I bought both sets by mail order from a dealer in Rutland, and they were separate issues with quite some time between them. Definitely very early seventies even if not the actual years shown. I would guess at possibly 1972, but I'm afraid it is only conjecture on my part.

I'm sure I read somewhere years ago, that 1971 was issued from 1973 onwards, and 1972 to 1976, was issued in 1976 itself.

I read this in about 1991. Not sure what it was in now, and my memory may be faulty. But I know that 1976 came into it somewhere.

Try this

Coins (Purchases from Mint)Sir Anthony Meyer Written Answers — February 14, 1977

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects the Royal Mint to fulfil the orders for proof sets of coins from 1972 to 1976 which were advertised in February 1976.

Enough research. I'll shut up now

No, that's excellent 1949 - thanks. That parliamentary Q&A is exactly the sort of authoritative source I was looking for.

Out of interest when exactly did Tower Hill mint close? I know the mint transferred to Wales with decimalisation, but were the '1967' predecimal coins all struck at the old Tower Hill site?

Yes I'm pretty sure that's the case - the Welsh Mint opened specifically to do the massive decimal recoinage, so Tower Mint would have handled the 1967 jobs. Though bear in mind that the halfcrown and halfpenny ceased production by 1969, no shillings were issued for 1967, florins ceased after 1967 with the issue of the 1968 10p, and the sixpence was scheduled for demonetisation before its reprieve, so my guess is that the only job they had to do from 1969 was churn out some pennies and 3d bits. I suppose all those 1967 pennies weren't actually needed, they just gave the Mint workers something to do !

Dark, I don't think you can be right about the 1970 sets - but I suppose it might be possible that the 1971 set actually did first appear in 1971, though it was minted continuously after that for a while. But equally I wouldn't be surprised if the Mint was so busy through 1971 that they deferred creating the 1971 proofs until 1972, when they had no regular issues to produce. And it now seems that 1972 - 1975 sets may not have been created until 1976!

[AardHawk 73]

These are all the details of proof mintages I could find.

Royal Mint Report #102 1.4.1971 - 31.3.72 from CM May'73 page 25, states 69,000 proof sets dated 1970 were produced.

Work of the Royal Mint 1972. CM Sept 1973 (Interim report?), states 700,320 Lsd Proof coins were produced.

Royal Mint Report 1973 from CM July '74 page 73, states 2,537,288 Lsd Proof and 590,160 UK decimal Proof coins struck in 1973 were produced.

Royal Mint Report #103 1.4.1972 - 31.3.1973 from CM Jan '75 page 48, states 79,415 1973 EEC 50p proof and 586,554 1970 Lsd sets produced.

Royal Mint Report 1974 from CM July '75 page 1?, states 1,405,340 UK proof coins and 492,720 UK Lsd Proof coins produced.

Royal Mint Report 104 1.4.1973 - 31.3.1974 from CM July '76 page 75, states 259,980 1973 EEC 50p proof, 74,293 1970 Lsd sets and 190,684 1971 decimal proof sets produced.

Work of the Royal Mint 1975. CM Aug 1976 (Interim report?), states 22,158 UK decimal proof coins produced.

Work of the Royal Mint 1976. CM July 1977 (Interim report?), states 1,660,636 UK decimal proof coins produced.

Royal Mint Report #105 1.4.1974 - 31.3.1975 from CM Oct '77 page 33, states 12,791 1973 EEC 50p proof, 19,814 1970 Lsd sets and 146,701 1971 decimal proof sets produced.

Royal Mint Report #106 1.4.1975 - 31.3.1976 from CM May '78 page 37, states 2,711 1973 EEC 50p proof, 52 1970 Lsd sets and 20,778 1971-75 decimal proof sets produced.

Work of the Royal Mint 1977. CM July 1978 (Interim report?) page 81, states 2,051,000 UK Proof coins produced.

Royal Mint Report #107 1.4.1976 - 31.3.1977 from CM June '79 page 37, states 1,719 1973 EEC 50p proofs and 257,854 1972-76 decimal proof sets produced.

For some strange reason the various coin magazines stopped publishing the Royal Mint reports details after 1979. Perhaps the Mint didn't release the details.