'Buffing' coins

[Dg43 0]

We all know that cleaning our coins is inadvisable, and I do not do it, but I have always been intrigued by the following piece of advice, taken from the introduction to Peter J Davies' book 'British Silver Coins', published in 1982.

" Silver coins cannot be successfully cleaned but surface grime can be removed with a clean piled cloth, gently rotating the coin between the cloth and fingers until the original toning is reached, when further pressure may be applied for final buffing" (my italics).

He goes on to warn against over-cleaning that produces striated parallel lines and of course, chemical cleaning.

Given that Davies' undoubted expertise means he would hardly be likely to advise collectors to ruin their treasures; what are forum members opinions on this advice? Is he right about recovering the original toning in this way? Has anyone spectacular results to share?

[Kronos 0]

We all know that cleaning our coins is inadvisable, and I do not do it, but I have always been intrigued by the following piece of advice, taken from the introduction to Peter J Davies' book 'British Silver Coins', published in 1982.

" Silver coins cannot be successfully cleaned but surface grime can be removed with a clean piled cloth, gently rotating the coin between the cloth and fingers until the original toning is reached, when further pressure may be applied for final buffing" (my italics).

He goes on to warn against over-cleaning that produces striated parallel lines and of course, chemical cleaning.

Given that Davies' undoubted expertise means he would hardly be likely to advise collectors to ruin their treasures; what are forum members opinions on this advice? Is he right about recovering the original toning in this way? Has anyone spectacular results to share?

I have always wondered this too, I am eager to see responses to you question DG43.

Mark

[Hussulo 6]

My view is following this "buffing" advice even with a "clean piled cloth" will leave hairlines and the coin will look cleaned.

Especially if the details of the coin are viewed under magnification.

The lustre of a coin if it is still hidden under some toning can occasionally be seen after dipping the coin in a specific coin dip, but even a coin with lustre now is going to tone again in the future (unless you keep it in some kind of 100% air tight container never to see the light of day again). I would consider dipping to be less intrusive to "buffing" not that I'd recommend either.

I the past a lot of coins have been cleaned and many have retoned over the cleaning. I think nowadays collectors are much more against cleaning coins then they were perhaps in the 80's and perhaps the advice given today by Mr. Davies might be different today.

All that being said I have never tried "buffing" nor have I ever seen anyone "buff" a coin and if it can be done without leaving any form of evidence I would stand corrected.

[Dg43 0]

I would consider dipping to be less intrusive to "buffing"./quote]

I wonder which current Numismatic Luminary advocates dipping? This method seems more invasive than 'buffing'. Coins thus dipped go black around the edge first when re-toning. I imagine dipped coins show some sort of etching on the surface that would be visible to the third party graders, thus rendering them 'cleaned' and un-slabbable.

[i think nowadays collectors are much more against cleaning coins then they were perhaps in the 80's and perhaps the advice given today by Mr. Davies might be different today./quote]

Fair comment, but these are the 1980's that we are talking about, not the 1880's. Given his somewhat elitist opinion that only Uncirculated coins are collectable, it would seem that many readers could have damaged coins following this advice. Perhaps the only sensible advice is: Don't do it - ever! Not: Dont do it - except.....

David

[Hussulo 6]

I wonder which current Numismatic Luminary advocates dipping? This method seems more invasive than 'buffing'. Coins thus dipped go black around the edge first when re-toning. I imagine dipped coins show some sort of etching on the surface that would be visible to the third party graders, thus rendering them 'cleaned' and un-slabbable.

Probably not many would advocate dipping, but how many apart from the example give would advocate "buffing".

I'm not saying I'd advocate either, but dipping in my mind would be less invasive than 'buffing'. However if a coin is over dipped then it will loose its lustre and look cleaned.

As for the third party graders and dipped coins, you just need to look at the amount of Blast white Morgans etc. in holders to realise that its quite a common occurrence especially in the US.

"A coin is not necessarily ungradable just because it is not totally original. In some cases, in fact, altering a coin may actually improve its grade. One example of this would be dipping a coin that has splotchy, mottled, or dull toning and thereby revealing a blazing white gem."

Taken from Detecting Doctored Coins, Part 2 by PCGS

Fair comment, but these are the 1980's that we are talking about, not the 1880's. Given his somewhat elitist opinion that only Uncirculated coins are collectable, it would seem that many readers could have damaged coins following this advice. Perhaps the only sensible advice is: Don't do it - ever! Not: Dont do it - except.....

Maybe there are several coins with hairlines from attempts. It be interesting to hear from anyone that has tried it.

Please understand I am not having a go at MR. Davies, in fact I truly do respect his wealth of Numismatic knowledge, and I'm not saying it doesn't work if done properly as I have never tried it. Personally I just think that if you did employ this method there might be some evidence of cleaning under magnification.

Cleaning still goes on today. I know someone that uses a rubber to rub off the toning on a coin, or Vaseline to clean the toning off.

In both cases he says the cleaned coin is "undetectable". I would disagree, I have never tried it, but the coin I saw that had been cleaned using Vaseline, looked a funny copper colour and not very natural.

I agree with your last statement of not to bother doing it. I think most that do engaged in such activities are most likely doing so for fraudulent means.

Hus

Edited January 30, 2009 by Hussulo

[Dg43 0]

Maybe there are several coins with hairlines from attempts. It be interesting to hear from anyone that has tried it.

Please understand I am not having a go at MR. Davies, in fact I truly do respect his wealth of Numismatic knowledge, and I'm not saying it doesn't work if done properly as I have never tried it. Personally I just think that if you did employ this method there might be some evidence of cleaning under magnification.

I think that when experts give questionable advice they deserve to have it picked apart; if that constitutes 'having a go' then so be it.

It would appear that either no-one has tried it, or they have and are unwilling to admit to the result.

Which brings us to the conclusion that it is poor advice.