New 2 Pence

[Guest Andy Aitken]

While cleaning out the attic, I found a coin with strange markings. On one side there is a windmill and in English, the words, 'NEW 2 PENCE' and the year 1971 at the bottom. On the reverse, there is what looks like the English three lions crest and the words, 'S BALLIVIE INSVLE DEGERNERE VE'.

I am absolutely baffled by this coin as it appears to be British but does not have the Queen's head or any other recognisable markings.

Can anyone shed any light on the origin of this coin.

[Sylvester 15]

At a guess Jersey?

[Half Penny Jon 0]

I would say that as well because of the 3 lions. Jersey coins don't always have the portrait of the queen.

[william 0]

While cleaning out the attic, I found a coin with strange markings. On one side there is a windmill and in English, the words, 'NEW 2 PENCE' and the year 1971 at the bottom. On the reverse, there is what looks like the English three lions crest and the words, 'S BALLIVIE INSVLE DEGERNERE VE'.

I am absolutely baffled by this coin as it appears to be British but does not have the Queen's head or any other recognisable markings.

Can anyone shed any light on the origin of this coin.

Well I don't have a clue what that is. I have a 1971 two pence from Jersey, on the reverse it has the legend BAILIWICK OF JERSEY, and below that in the centre of the coin it has a shield with the three English lions in it, and below that another legend reads TWO NEW PENCE 1971. On the reverse the legend is QUEEN ELIZABETH THE SECOND, and it has the Machin (!!! ) portrait of Elizabeth. I can even attach a pic if necessary. So I don't think this is from Jersey...

[Sylvester 15]

yeah i know i've got some exactly like yours. But i also had a ten pence which was more like the other coin originally described.

Guernsey?

[william 0]

It could be Guernsey I suppose, but I don't know for sure as I don't have one!

[Master Jmd 50]

I have one, but i dont know anything of it : (hope the pic helps)

Edited April 25, 2004 by Master J.M.D

[Master Jmd 50]

hehe...i found this:

Gurnsey;

Denomination GF VF XF UNC Notes

2 New Pence £0.30 $0.50 £0.50 $0.75 £0.60 $0.95 Dated 1971 (windmill)

[william 0]

What is 'XF', is it the same as EF?

[Master Jmd 50]

the site also says this:

XF - A coin with original lustre, 95% superb, good detail over most of the coin, but may have small imperfections

[william 0]

Ah, so it is about the same as AUNC or GEF!

[Master Jmd 50]

Ah, so it is about the same as AUNC or GEF!

probably...

[william 0]

Good, I've been wondering what it meant for ages!

[Half Penny Jon 0]

I don't like american grading because they dont look for the same things as the British grading system.

[Sylvester 15]

No chaps you is getting confused.

The US use these grades

MS - Mint State (unc) the lower MS grades are equal to our AUNC-GEF.

AU - What we'd call AUNC, it's equal to EF-GEF

XF - Extremely fine (but they use X as in X-tremely, you see?) Equal to our VF-AEF

VF - Very fine, equal to our F-VF

F - Fine, equal to our VG

G - Equal to our Fair.

FAIR - We'd call it poor.

[william 0]

Is XF American? Yeah I agree Penny Master, apparently Americans think a coin has to have lustre (or as they would say it, 'luster') to be UNC, but coins will eventually lose their lustre and start to develop a tone, but they can still be UNC!

[william 0]

No chaps you is getting confused.

The US use these grades

MS - Mint State (unc) the lower MS grades are equal to our AUNC-GEF.

AU - What we'd call AUNC, it's equal to EF-GEF

XF - Extremely fine (but they use X as in X-tremely, you see?) Equal to our VF-AEF

VF - Very fine, equal to our F-VF

F - Fine, equal to our VG

G - Equal to our Fair.

FAIR - We'd call it poor.

Oh I see...! Americans always have to do it differently don't they!

[Half Penny Jon 0]

I know, the grading system is so wrong. I can't believe they would favour a shiny coin instead of a nicely toned proof.

[william 0]

I would much rather have a nicely toned coin, not one that looks as if it's been cleaned!

[Half Penny Jon 0]

My point exactly, it is a shame that the American grading system cannot accept the sheer beauty of a nicely toned proof.

[william 0]

Yes it is. I especially like nicely toned copper UNC coins, and that bluish tone you sometimes get on silver coins

[Sylvester 15]

if you really want to get into complexities...

They grade on a 70 point number scale 1=poor, 70 = perfect.

(our grades in brackets)

MS70 = Perfect (IMPOSSIBLE)

MS68-69 = Near perfect (Gem UNC)

MS65-67 = Above average (BU)

MS63-64 = Average (UNC)

MS61-62 = Below average (AUNC-UNC)

MS60 = Lowest grade required to be UNC, (AUNC)

AU58 = Near UNC (AUNC)

AU55 = average AU (GEF)

AU53 = Below average AU (EF-GEF)

AU50 = Lowest to be AU (EF)

XF45 = Decent XF (GVF-EF)

XF40 = Lowest to be XF (VF)

VF35 = Above average VF (AVF)

VF30 = Average VF (GF)

VF25 = Below Average VF (F)

VF20 = Minimum to be VF (AF)

F15 = Above average F (VG)

F12 = Below average F (AVG)

VG10 = Top VG (G)

VG8 = Average VG (AG)

G6 = Top G (GFair)

G4 = Bottom G (Fair)

AG3 = Almost good (AFair)

Fair-2 = fair (Poor)

Poor-1 = poor (Blank disc)

Understand now?

[Half Penny Jon 0]

I like the rainbow toning on Silver proof soins such as the 1847 gothic florin which is absolutely beautiful.

[Sylvester 15]

i think you'll find toned coins are very very popular in the US, but they are usualy rainbow toned or pastel toned...

Kinda like this...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsnake/

(i'd dip all of those).

[william 0]

I understand now. Is that slabbing Sylvester? Yes I also love rainbow toning - it looks great on the most beautiful coins like gothic/godless florins, and gothic crowns!