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DaveG38

Question for Chris

38 posts in this topic

Hi Chris,

This question is a bit of a cheek, but I hope you won't mind sharing some information with me.

I'm currently in the early stages of producing a book on 20th century coins and I need to refer to many of the 'standard references' such as Davies, Peck, Freeman etc. My concern is about what permissions I need in order to quote information from these sources. What I have in mind is say Freeman or Peck numbers, rather than actual quotes from the text of the books. In your Rotographic series, for instance in Collectors Coins GB 2007, you use Freeman and ESC numbers to identify the coins, and I wonder if you needed to approach the publishers for permission to use them. It may be that this isn't necessary and if so I would be pleased to know as I wouldn't have to worry about this aspect of the task.

I hasten to add that my 'book' will cover an entirely different area of coins than yours so there would be no direct commercial overlap. In other words, you needn't worry that you would be helping a rival!!

Thanks in hope

DaveG38

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Coins 728x90

Who will be publishing it and what's it about?

I'l PM you about the numbering!

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Who will be publishing it and what's it about?

I'l PM you about the numbering!

Chris,

Many thanks for the reply. I agree with you that its better to be safe than sorry rather than discover that I have infringed copyright when its too late. Oh well, another task or two to add to all the others!!!

As to publishing, it will be done by me personally - I have published a poetry book for my other half already and the process is pretty easy. The tricky part is the marketing, but I do see options for me for the coin book. What I am impressed with is the quality of self published material these days. Its gone a long way from the days when all you could do is staple together the pages!!!!

What's it about? Put simply, 20th century varieties. Lots of commentators mention them, but often describe them differently or don't include them all. What I am going to attempt is to reconcile them, with lots of photos from my personal collection - I've got most of them, but not all. Don't know how long it will take - probably a year or so.

Regards.

DaveG38

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Nice to hear that.

You can forward other pictures of variety to red r,for grading if they decided to add a new book for grading variety,obverse and reverse and its variety and identifier.

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Good luck with the book Dave,

I'm don't know if I can be of any help, but if so, feel free to ask and I'll do my best. Let me know when it's finished and I'll give a shout out for you on the forum or CoinsGB website.

All the best,

Hus

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Let me know if you need a proofreader! ;)

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Let me know if you need a proofreader! ;)

I can vouch for Clive, he is great at spotting mistakes!!!! ;)

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:D

Many thanks Colin!!

;)

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First of all, many thanks for the support from forum members and for the kind offers of help. At this stage, I am not sure what might be needed, but I will certainly approach the forum as necessary. However, there is one area where I would appreciate some advice, perhaps from 'HistoricCoinage,' and that is in the area of the structure and layout for the book.

This project is not entirely a twinkle in my eye as I have been thinking about it for some months now and have already put finger to keyboard. Progress is as follows:

1) Title - I have decided to call it 'British 20th Century Coin Varieties.'

2) I have identified from my 6 main sources all the reported varieties that I can find.

3) I have sorted out all those that I have examples of and am on the lookout for the remainder.

4) I have more or less sorted out the overall structure for the book.

5) I have designed a standard layout for the individual sections, which I hope is useable for readers.

6) Have written about 35 pages covering pre-decimal Elizabeth II and George VI bronze.

The area where I would like some advice is number 5), where a fresh pair of eyes and brain might be useful in order to ensure that I have the best layout and approach. If anybody is willing to look at a section of the book, say the Elizabeth II farthings and let me have comments then that would be really helpful. It goes without saying that all such help will be acknowledged in the book as will any other inputs made by forum members e.g. photographs etc.

Regards.

DaveG38

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Sounds good Dave.

If you do need help publishing (and marketing, which as you say, is the hardest part) then let me know.

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Hi Chris,

Many thanks for the kind offer of help with the marketing. I don't really expect much of a market for my book - its more a labour of love, with possibly a few souls buying one once complete. I don't really fancy myself as any kind of expert author. Having said this, at this stage, I really don't know what I might need but I already see many issues and areas where the help of everybody on the forum might be useful.

Can I start with a first quick easy question for everybody. I am basing my information on the bronze coinage largely on the 2006 issue of Freeman, which I own, and the 1964 second edition of Peck, which I have on loan from the library. However, I understand that there is a later printing of Peck dated 1970 and I wondered if anybody on the forum owns one. If so, can they tell me if it covers coins from 1963 to 1970 or is it just an update on the 1964 edition (which only goes up to 1963)?

If it does go up to 1970, or at least later than 1963, would the owner be prepared to carry out some basic checks on coins in it, and provide me with some data so that I can be sure I have the most accurate information?

Thanks

DaveG38

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Hi Chris,

Many thanks for the kind offer of help with the marketing. I don't really expect much of a market for my book - its more a labour of love, with possibly a few souls buying one once complete. I don't really fancy myself as any kind of expert author. Having said this, at this stage, I really don't know what I might need but I already see many issues and areas where the help of everybody on the forum might be useful.

Can I start with a first quick easy question for everybody. I am basing my information on the bronze coinage largely on the 2006 issue of Freeman, which I own, and the 1964 second edition of Peck, which I have on loan from the library. However, I understand that there is a later printing of Peck dated 1970 and I wondered if anybody on the forum owns one. If so, can they tell me if it covers coins from 1963 to 1970 or is it just an update on the 1964 edition (which only goes up to 1963)?

If it does go up to 1970, or at least later than 1963, would the owner be prepared to carry out some basic checks on coins in it, and provide me with some data so that I can be sure I have the most accurate information?

Thanks

DaveG38

The 1970 was a lithographic reprint of the 1964 2nd edition. However, there is also the addendum published in the 1967 BNJ just before Peck died. As we all know, Peck is also hopelessly out of date by now. There must be several hundred additons if not more to those listed by him, and that doesn't include micro varieties such as whether the letter points to a tooth or space.

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Rob,

I entirely agree that Peck is hopelessly out of date and that there are many minor variants referred to by others that Peck doesn't even identify. However, Peck does mention many and I wanted to make sure that I refer to all sources for data and to the descriptions they contai, so that I give a comprehensive view of 20C varieties. To do this I need to include Peck numbers, but I also need to be sure that I have the most up to date edition - hence my question. If you are saying that the 1970 reprint is just that, with no further data added or amendments made, then I think this answers my question.

Thanks.

DaveG38

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I entirely agree that Peck is hopelessly out of date and that there are many minor variants referred to by others that Peck doesn't even identify.

Sorry to invade the topic, but if I remember rightly Colin Cooke was planning on producing a Farthing referance, but since he passed away I haven't heard any more news about that. Anyone know if anyone is continuing that?

An up-to-date referance that includes Farthings would be right up my street.

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Hi Master jmd,

I certainly intend to cover farthings - already completed Liz II - but only for 20th Century. However, you might like to try this website whcih has a way to go yet, but is still an excellent resource for farthings.

http://aboutfarthings.co.uk/

DaveG38

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Hi, I have come into this discussion months late, mainly because I don't look at the forum as often as I need to. I will have to set up a reminder for myself.

I too am researching and developing an electronic booklet in .pdf format, where the aim is to detail and show pictures of 'standard' Freeman/Gouby coins, and any known varieties of the 'standard' coins. The whole project started when I developed a database application for my own Bronze Penny collection, and as part of the inputing data, I compiled a list of the 'standard' coins, with their Freeman, Gouby, Peck, Chris's (Rotographic) and Satin references, so that I could develope a standard reference of my own to identify a particular coin.

I forgot to mention that I intend to cover English Bronze Pennies 1860 - 1970 only.

After inputting all this data into my application, I produced a report showing all these references for each 'standard' penny, which I found very useful in identifying and referring to any particular penny. As I had found it useful, I offered it to a few other collectors/dealers that I knew, and from that came the suggestion that I might compile a booklet with the 'standard' pennies as a base, and detail any varieties that I could find as 'children' of each standard penny.

As I started to do this, the whole file became so large, I found that I had to sup-divide it into four parts, starting with 1860 - 1874 ...

I am working on this first part at the moment, and am collecting 'photos of any variety that I come across.

The subject of copyright was raised in the first post, and this has been something for me, as I don't want to steal anyone else property, or open myself to action being taken, etc.

I have asked sources where it has been practical, and where data is in the public domain - Freeman numbers are used, and were intended to be used every day by hundreds of people - see ebay for instance - and this I feel applies to other Reference books - I have used those references, and referred the reader to the copyright owner in a statement at the beginning of the booklet. With regard to pictures, I have asked permission from the owner of the picture - not necessarily the owner of the coin - where it has been humanly possible, and the owners name is attached to each picture. Where I have not been able to find the owner, and wanted to use the picture, I have added a tag to say the the copyright owner is not known, and at the end of the booklet, added the following statement:

'I have tried to find out and acknowledge the Copyright Owner of all data - Pictures, Information, Etc. - contained within this report, and where that is known, and permission to use it has been given, I have acknowledged it. A lot of the data collected here has come from the Web, and is some cases it has not been possible to seek permission for it's use in this report, and where this has happened, and the Copyright owner is made aware, I would be pleased to hear from them on my email address - ********- as to whether they give permission or not, and whether they wish acknowledgement. Any data that is refused permission will be removed immediately from my database, and from any subsequent reports generated thereafter. Robert Gray-Thompson, May 2008'

I apologise for this very long post, but as I have been approached by someone with a view to selling this report when it is finished, I would like the forum's views as to whether this is an acceptable way of covering the copyright issue should I profit from the data that I have used.

Also, I have approached those who I know that might have pictures of Bronze Penny varieties - if there are any others who might have pictures that I could use, I would be very grateful for any offers.

Kind regards, Robert

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Hi Robert,

Your electronic booklet sounds very worthwhile and will certainly be off interest to many collectors.

I must state that I am not a lawyer and know only bare minimum when it comes to legal issues, but I did found this:

<a href="http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law" target="_blank">http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyrigh...k_copyright_law</a>

which you may find of interest.

In particular section 4, and sections 6 i (that is if a picture of a coin is to be considered "artistic works"). If it is then it seems that the person taking the picture automatically owns the copyright for 70 years, regardless if they have left contact information or not. Therefore if a person who's picture you have used wishes to take the the matter to court, then I'm not sure if your statement of not knowing who it belongs to, and leaving a contact information would stand up. It may still be seen as copyright infringement..

That's just the way I see the rules and I may be wrong?

Personally I wouldn't go by what sellers on online auctions are doing as to whether or not it is the right, or the legal thing to do. I am sure there are many breaking the copyright law everyday.

I'm afraid we live in an era of lawsuits, I would rather feel safe then sorry and would leave out material if I wasn't sure about it.

Perhaps someone else who knows more, or has more legal experience will add to the discussion

Regards,

Hus

Edited by Hussulo

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Hi all,

Earlier in this thread, you may recall me detailing a book I was putting together on 20th Century Coin Varieties. Well, it's getting there, although I have split the book in two volumes, one to cover bronze and brass and the other silver/cupro-nickel. The main sections of the bronze volume are written, photographs taken and a structure put in place. I am now going through it, editing and researching new information to make it as comprehensive as possible and in doing so, I have found that I need some help, which I hope the forum can supply.

I need a photo of the 1915 or 1916 penny obverse with and without a 'recessed ear.' I have looked around on the internet at various coins and I have been unable to find anything that gives me a clue as to what I am looking for. So can anybody help with photos I can use? If so then 300dpi is the standard needed and a close up on the 'ears' is all I need, not the whole coin. Obviously, due acknowledgements will be made when the book finally appears.

Many Thanks.

DaveG38

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Hi All,

I have now about finished my book on 20th century bronze coin varieties. However, I have a small issue that I wonder if anybody can help with. When it comes to decimal bronze, I have, I think, established most of the varieties for the 1/2p, 1p and 2p up to 1984 and I am aware of the two metal content types for 1992 and 1998, but does anybody know of any others covering the period from 1985 to 1999? Of course it may be that nobody has yet tried to find any, there aren't any to find given modern minting methods, or that nobody can be bothered - I must say that closely examining piles of similar coins can be very tedious!

So can anybody help? Anybody know of any references to mags or articles on this subject?

Thanks.

DaveG38

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Hi All,

I have now about finished my book on 20th century bronze coin varieties. However, I have a small issue that I wonder if anybody can help with. When it comes to decimal bronze, I have, I think, established most of the varieties for the 1/2p, 1p and 2p up to 1984 and I am aware of the two metal content types for 1992 and 1998, but does anybody know of any others covering the period from 1985 to 1999? Of course it may be that nobody has yet tried to find any, there aren't any to find given modern minting methods, or that nobody can be bothered - I must say that closely examining piles of similar coins can be very tedious!

So can anybody help? Anybody know of any references to mags or articles on this subject?

Thanks.

DaveG38

How did this project work out DaveG38?

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Hi All,

I have now about finished my book on 20th century bronze coin varieties. However, I have a small issue that I wonder if anybody can help with. When it comes to decimal bronze, I have, I think, established most of the varieties for the 1/2p, 1p and 2p up to 1984 and I am aware of the two metal content types for 1992 and 1998, but does anybody know of any others covering the period from 1985 to 1999? Of course it may be that nobody has yet tried to find any, there aren't any to find given modern minting methods, or that nobody can be bothered - I must say that closely examining piles of similar coins can be very tedious!

So can anybody help? Anybody know of any references to mags or articles on this subject?

Thanks.

DaveG38

How did this project work out DaveG38?

Both published! To avoid bias, and I couldn't find them for sale on Chris's site, just type 'David Groom Coin' into google and you'll find them! ;)

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And what's more, they're bloody good. Outshine Davies and Freeman in terms of clarity of photos, and there's even a good few varieties in there not mentioned by either. 1959 1/- Sc, for instance - Groom Type 1 and Groom Type 2.

They're both must-haves, Peterkin!

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Hi All,

I have now about finished my book on 20th century bronze coin varieties. However, I have a small issue that I wonder if anybody can help with. When it comes to decimal bronze, I have, I think, established most of the varieties for the 1/2p, 1p and 2p up to 1984 and I am aware of the two metal content types for 1992 and 1998, but does anybody know of any others covering the period from 1985 to 1999? Of course it may be that nobody has yet tried to find any, there aren't any to find given modern minting methods, or that nobody can be bothered - I must say that closely examining piles of similar coins can be very tedious!

So can anybody help? Anybody know of any references to mags or articles on this subject?

Thanks.

DaveG38

How did this project work out DaveG38?

Both published! To avoid bias, and I couldn't find them for sale on Chris's site, just type 'David Groom Coin' into google and you'll find them! ;)

Amazon is the expensive way to get them. I offer them to forum members at £6.99 for the bronze and £9.99 for the silver. And if you want them signed then that comes as free bonus!! The only additional cost is Royal Mail, where the cost to send one book is pretty much the same for both. If you want one or both let me know.

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I wouldn't mind one of each of those Dave please.

I'll just let my in-laws know that they have my Christmas present sorted ;) PM me with details of how to pay and I'll let you know my addy. B) Thanks.D.

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