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Questions about coins tenderable in the decimal system

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Hello (first post),

I have an interest in all coins which are or have been tenderable in the decimal pound sterling system. I am interested in the different types e.g. large 50p, small 50p, shilling, large 5p, small 5p (I'm not so interested in separate issue of those indiviudal types).

I was hoping that some of the people on this forum would be able to help me with the following questions which I'm having difficulty with:

1) Do you know an accurate date for when the first decimal coins were made available in the UK (some time in 1968)

2) Some pre-decimal coins were decimalised on 30/08/1971. Strictly, between 15th Feb 1971 and 30/08/1971, were these coins decimal, pre-decimal, or both?

3) On the same theme, could you confirm that pre-decimal crowns are still legally tenderable at 25p and double florins are still legally tenderable at 20p. Which legal instrument instructed this and where can I review it?

4) Do you know the precise date of issue of the 1972 decimal crown?

5) Do you know the precise date of issue of the 1986 Commonwealth Games commemorative £2 coin?

6) Are pre-decimal Sovereigns considered redenominated at decimal values, if they are which legal instrument enacted this? If they are, is a triple Sovereign legally tenderable for £3?

7) Does a half-sovereign have a face value of 50p?

Any help greatly appreciated

Regards

Laurence

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The only predecimal coins that continued to see circulation after D-Day were the sixpence circulating as a 2.5p coin until 1980, then the shilling as a 5p coin until the 1990's and the 2 shilling or florin coin circulating as a 10p until the 1990's when both the 5 and 10p were downsized. All other coins were demonetised in 1971. I believe coins like the Churchill crown circulated(if you can call it that) as 25p coins, but they were not often used in actual circulation.

If you have quantities of predecimal coins you can still redeem them, though they might have more numismatic value now than face value. I currently have ca. £90 in predecimal coins still.

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'' All other coins were demonetised in 1971. I believe coins like the Churchill crown circulated(if you can call it that) as 25p coins, but they were not often used in actual circulation.''

Respectfully, I don't think you're right. My belief is that, originally, it was the intention to demonitise all pre-decimal coins at decimalisation. However, a letters patent was issued which which redenominated 5 coins, the crown as 25p, the double florin at 20p, the florin at 10p, the shilling at 5p and the sixpence at 2.5p. Since then, only the florin, shilling and sixpence have been demonitised.

Best

Laurence

Edited by LFG

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'' All other coins were demonetised in 1971. I believe coins like the Churchill crown circulated(if you can call it that) as 25p coins, but they were not often used in actual circulation.''

Respectfully, I don't think you're right. My belief is that, originally, it was the intention to demonitise all pre-decimal coins at decimalisation. However, a letters patent was issued which which redenominated 5 coins, the crown as 25p, the double florin at 20p, the florin at 10p, the shilling at 5p and the sixpence at 2.5p. Since then, only the florin, shilling and sixpence have been demonitised.

Best

Laurence

Sadly my recollection of D-Day is a little sketchy but as far as I can recall, from 15 February 1971 pre-decimal bronze/brass coins (and I suppose the 3d joey) were only legal tender in lots which could be directly converted to the new currency i.e. 6d = 2.5np. That situation continued I believe until the August (i.e. 6 months later) when the 1d and 3d were officially declared to be no longer legal tender. It had originally been the intention to withdraw the 6d at the same time, but the Daily Mail or the Express or someone mounted a 'Save Our Tanner' campaign and the government relented, gradually withdrawing the little coin over the next few years until it too was declared non-legal currency.

In the sixties, the government had wanted to adopt the 10 shilling/50p as the new unit of currency but for some reason they eventually stuck with the £. There was, as far as I am aware, no intention to withdraw the shilling and the florin as they were directly convertable to the new currency even if it resulted in twenty years of confused tourists. The crown at 25p, and for all I know the double florin are still technically legal tender.

I suppose it is quite possible that by some quirk of the legislation, the groat is still legal tender for 1.666667p. Now that would cause confusion at Tesco's checkout...

I hope this helps despite the lack of actual dates.

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Respectfully, I don't think you're right. My belief is that, originally, it was the intention to demonitise all pre-decimal coins at decimalisation. However, a letters patent was issued which which redenominated 5 coins, the crown as 25p, the double florin at 20p, the florin at 10p, the shilling at 5p and the sixpence at 2.5p. Since then, only the florin, shilling and sixpence have been demonitised.

Best

Laurence

Actually given how long it took for the BRM to ramp up to replacing so much new coinage, evidence is quite clear that they wanted as much predecimal coinage as possible to work in the new decimal system, therefore you have the shilling and the florin continuing to circulate until the 5 and 10p coins were downsized. The shilling and florin were very popularly used denominations and replacing their circulation equivalent would have been more than the BRM could have possibly handled with that time line.

In reference to what Red Riley has said about the 10/- being the new unit, that was the original intent in the early 1960's, as actually it was easier to account for 1:10, and this was done in Australia, South Africa, New Zealand when those countries decimalised their currencies, but Britain elected to keep the £ sterling. Also Britain actually began the quest for decimalisation with the introduction of the florin in the 1840's, at that time the florin was denominated as "One Tenth of a Pound".

Also the tanner was indeed on the chopping block, and yes a campaign was raised to save the coin, so it did remain in circulation until 1980 when it was demonetised, but by that time it largely disappeared as a curiousity, and probably shipped off to far lands like the USA where they were sold at $1 apiece as wedding momentos.

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'' All other coins were demonetised in 1971. I believe coins like the Churchill crown circulated(if you can call it that) as 25p coins, but they were not often used in actual circulation.''

Respectfully, I don't think you're right. My belief is that, originally, it was the intention to demonitise all pre-decimal coins at decimalisation. However, a letters patent was issued which which redenominated 5 coins, the crown as 25p, the double florin at 20p, the florin at 10p, the shilling at 5p and the sixpence at 2.5p. Since then, only the florin, shilling and sixpence have been demonitised.

Best

Laurence

Yes, this is correct according to the letters patent of 1971, which leaves the double florin in a curious position. Not struck as a currency coin after 1890. it appears never to have been demonetised, despite its brief life from 1887-1890. In 1971 the modern 20p coin was also eleven years away in the future. The letters patent also makes it clear that pre-decimal crowns - which since 1902 had been commemorative rather than currency coins - would continue at a face value of 25p. However, in practice crowns can be a problem, as too may people in positions where they should know better are confused by the co-existence of post-decimal 25p crowns and more recent crown-sized coins with a face value of £5. All are technically legal tender. I've only once seen a £5 given in change to someone, and they hadn't a clue what it was.

Geoff

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Oh, I make it a policy of whenever a new £5 coin comes out to get a handful from the post office and spend them! You should see the expression on people's faces - though I have yet to have one actually refused! (As you can all see, it doesn't take much to amuse me!) :P

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Oh, I make it a policy of whenever a new £5 coin comes out to get a handful from the post office and spend them! You should see the expression on people's faces - though I have yet to have one actually refused! (As you can all see, it doesn't take much to amuse me!) :P

I spent one in a local shop once. The lady behind the till was a bit apprehensive but in the end accepted it. :)

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Oh, I make it a policy of whenever a new £5 coin comes out to get a handful from the post office and spend them! You should see the expression on people's faces - though I have yet to have one actually refused! (As you can all see, it doesn't take much to amuse me!) :P

I spent one in a local shop once. The lady behind the till was a bit apprehensive but in the end accepted it. :)

Just to put a slightly different spin on this discussion, tenderable coins are not always legal tender. Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts.

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amounts:

£5 (Crown) - for any amount

£2 - for any amount

£1 - for any amount

50p - for any amount not exceeding £10

25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10

20p - for any amount not exceeding £10

10p - for any amount not exceeding £5

5p - for any amount not exceeding £5

2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

That's why you can't take revenge on your local council and pay your £1000 council tax bill in 1 penny pieces.

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£5 (Crown) - for any amount

£2 - for any amount

£1 - for any amount

50p - for any amount not exceeding £10

25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10

20p - for any amount not exceeding £10

10p - for any amount not exceeding £5

5p - for any amount not exceeding £5

2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

Thanks for your help with this.I should state that I am tyring to compile a similar list but with almost pedantic accuracy, i.e. higher denomination coins, such as Britannias and Sovereigns? What makes these legal tender - a proclamation under the coinage act? There are also 3p and 4p maunday coins to add to this list.

Also, if a 1p is made in gold, is it legal tender at 1p for any amount (as gold coins are according to the coinage act).

Also, does a half sovereign have a value of 50p?

Could anyone tell me how I could get hold of a copy of the letters patent which 'decimalised' the pre-decimal coins.

Best

Laurence

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When you got to the very accurate bottom of it all I'd love to feature the infomation in the next Check your Change book.

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£5 (Crown) - for any amount

£2 - for any amount

£1 - for any amount

50p - for any amount not exceeding £10

25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10

20p - for any amount not exceeding £10

10p - for any amount not exceeding £5

5p - for any amount not exceeding £5

2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

Thanks for your help with this.I should state that I am tyring to compile a similar list but with almost pedantic accuracy, i.e. higher denomination coins, such as Britannias and Sovereigns? What makes these legal tender - a proclamation under the coinage act? There are also 3p and 4p maunday coins to add to this list.

Also, if a 1p is made in gold, is it legal tender at 1p for any amount (as gold coins are according to the coinage act).

Also, does a half sovereign have a value of 50p?

Could anyone tell me how I could get hold of a copy of the letters patent which 'decimalised' the pre-decimal coins.

Best

Laurence

Are not Soveriegns, 1/2 Soveriegns, Britannias and maundy money no more than commemorative coins now a day with no intension of ever being circulated even if it has a nominal tenderable value.

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I'm quite sure that maundy money is decimal and legal tender and that a half sovereign is, strictly speaking 50p and that the Britannias are also legal tender for their face values. Of course the metal values are all higher so no one is likely to really test that.

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I'm quite sure that maundy money is decimal and legal tender and that a half sovereign is, strictly speaking 50p and that the Britannias are also legal tender for their face values. Of course the metal values are all higher so no one is likely to really test that.

I seem to remember reading a report in Croydon's local newpaper the Advertiser some time in the 1970s, that an enterprising local builder had been paying his men in sovereigns, that have a face value of one pound, thus avoiding paying tax and NI. Apparantly the Inland Revenue had taken him to court, but lost the case, so the law was speedily changed.

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I seem to remember reading a report in Croydon's local newpaper the Advertiser some time in the 1970s, that an enterprising local builder had been paying his men in sovereigns, that have a face value of one pound, thus avoiding paying tax and NI. Apparantly the Inland Revenue had taken him to court, but lost the case, so the law was speedily changed.

Similarly there was a case in Nevada USA where a contractor was paying his employees in $50 AGE's(1oz gold) and only declaring the $50 as income. Of course the feds can create a coin and put a denomination on it, but they do not honour it as such. In fact the $50 denomination is determined to be only a means to make a bullion piece a coin, so it is thus included in anti-counterfeiting legislation.

Similarly Maundy pieces were decimalised, but it was really more of a formality than anything else, because know one in their right mind is going to spend a penny coin as such, but rather most of the pieces swiftly make it into the collectable market, having been sold at a profit by their recipients.

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