Coin aquisition of the week.......

[azda 963]

5 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

A dinner plate, Dave?

I do agree with your thoughts though.

We’ll let me put it this way, I’ve worked out his NGC con. He is an affiliate and how he screws newbies and the unwitting is quite the earner and I believe his minimum is about 120k a year.

The basic plot is that he gets people to conserve coins from the modern Tier knowing 99% don’t actually require conservation, he uses his own submission form and then transfers that data onto an NGC official form when there is enough to fill the sheet. He then charges the consignor even before the work is carried out by NGC. Most people didn’t click that their coins didn’t and weren’t conserved because they were mostly new releases that didn’t actually require conservation.

Each coin conserved costs a minimum of 12-13 GBP but there’s also coins that would be considered FVF (higher valued coins) coins which gets charged at 4%, now based on him submitting 3000 coins a month, 50% ask for conservation and 50% don’t actually need it, that’s 750 coins a month x £13 (minimum) x12 months and it’s a pretty sweet earner that he’s creaming from the gullible.

A guy asked me to check 5 of his coins if they were conserved (he wanted all of them conserved) and only 2 out of those were done, the other 3 cost him £124, so that’s £124 of free money he has taken for not doing anything, and that’s how he’s enjoying buying £20k coins. I’ve had people comment on my videos that he is the actual reason they have left coin collecting, him and his pet ape Marc Simmons.

Edited August 23, 2021 by azda

[Diaconis 644]

I see that Mr Franks, sole owner, set up Numistacker Numismatic Services on 5/10/20. It will be interesting to see his first account filing due on 31/10 this year.

[Paddy 1,333]

10 hours ago, Sleepy said:

What markets do you frequent Paddy being a fellow west country resident might see if I can come and pick up a bargain?

I do Barnstaple Pannier market on Wednesdays and now Saturdays. I do occasional Car boot sales - either Pottington, which is just outside Barnstaple, or, if the weather looks dodgy, Exeter Race Course. I sometimes do Flea markets - there is one this bank holiday Monday 30th Aug at Tapeley Park near Instow (Bideford). 

Always happy to see genuine collectors!

 

[azda 963]

4 hours ago, Diaconis said:

I see that Mr Franks, sole owner, set up Numistacker Numismatic Services on 5/10/20. It will be interesting to see his first account filing due on 31/10 this year.

Unfortunately he doesn’t keep the accounts for the money that he keeps. A few have asked him to prove their coins were conserved and he told him he doesn’t keep those records. Funny thing is that he has been doing this in bulk since around 2017-18 but has only started declaring it since 2020.

[oldcopper 238]

23 hours ago, azda said:

Dave is the name lol. Who is buying, well there is a Greek guy who has some high grade halves, I believe he would have been involved in this bidding, whether he got it or not is another story.

The craving for high slab numbers is ridiculous right now, fuelled by certain people on YT and Heritage marketing. I get the feeling this side of the market is rigged. I knew a guy who paid 10k for a Geo IIII proof half Sov, Heritage wanted him to consign it, he had got it graded and came back as the finest but not Cameo designated, he said he felt it was Ultra cameo or wards to that effect, he said if it was graded as such that he would submit it.

Heritage sent it off to NGC and low and behold it came back as the Ultra Cameo he and Heritage asked for,  it sold for $26,400, the hype for high grade half Sovereigns right now is real.

There's more incentive to upgrade by even a bit if there's a large financial incentive to do it. This is the problem when the market become overly grade influenced. And people who use the grading services more often will get more leeway, as they are pumping more money into the grading service. It's I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine - in other words a racket.

I've mentioned before about some companies breaking coins out of slabs to get them hopefully graded higher. It can backfire occasionally. One company took a beautiful 1770 proof halfpenny (ex Gregory 1, May 2006 originally later ex JJ Kern CNG 2018), then "enhanced" it and it came back a grade lower! Unlucky! Why they even thought of enhancing it I don't know, the slab needed replacing of course but the coin from my memory was stunning. And both versions of the coin were on the PCGS website as well last time I looked!

Talking of silly prices $15,600 for a PR66 BN 1839 proof penny, there's a bit of discolouration around the truncation as well:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-proof-penny-1839-pr66-brown-ngc-/a/3094-34794.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Edited August 23, 2021 by oldcopper

[oldcopper 238]

I've just checked and the illustration of the pre-enhanced version of the 1770 proof halfpenny ex Gregory has now been removed from the PGCS website. It was PR65RB, but only one different one is now shown in that classification. It is now PR65+BN, so I suppose it has gained a plus but lost the RB designation, in my opinion a downgrade. A little spot on the neck was a useful pointer. The old version will still be on the CNG archive on sixbid early to mid 2018

So why did they remove it, was it at the behest of the dealer who enhanced it, and didn't want anyone finding out? it would be interesting to see PCGS's reason for removing it from their site, not that they'd ever give it of course.

I'm not saying the third party grading services are dishonest, in the main I'm sure they're very professional, but it's only going to be human nature to push slightly up rather than down if there's wiggle room for an important client  This is easier to do as the grade difference at present doesn't have to be very much to make all the difference to the price, especially in the upper echelons. And all those extra classifications and increments on top of the number grades are just more subjectiveness - cameo, ultra cameo, plus, plus plus, gold star etc etc and are designed to create extra bigger price tiers and value. And it's working.

[Peckris 2 1,839]

10 hours ago, azda said:

Unfortunately he doesn’t keep the accounts for the money that he keeps. A few have asked him to prove their coins were conserved and he told him he doesn’t keep those records. Funny thing is that he has been doing this in bulk since around 2017-18 but has only started declaring it since 2020.

[azda 963]

On 8/23/2021 at 1:23 PM, oldcopper said:

I've mentioned before about some companies breaking coins out of slabs to get them hopefully graded higher. It can backfire occasionally. One company took a beautiful 1770 proof halfpenny (ex Gregory 1, May 2006 originally later ex JJ Kern CNG 2018), then "enhanced" it and it came back a grade lower! Unlucky! Why they even thought of enhancing it I don't know, the slab needed replacing of course but the coin from my memory was stunning. And both versions of the coin were on the PCGS website as well last time I looked!

They deserve everything they get

[Bronze & Copper Collector 384]

7 hours ago, azda said:

On 8/23/2021 at 7:23 AM, oldcopper said:

I've mentioned before about some companies breaking coins out of slabs to get them hopefully graded higher. It can backfire occasionally. One company took a beautiful 1770 proof halfpenny (ex Gregory 1, May 2006 originally later ex JJ Kern CNG 2018), then "enhanced" it and it came back a grade lower! Unlucky! Why they even thought of enhancing it I don't know, the slab needed replacing of course but the coin from my memory was stunning. And both versions of the coin were on the PCGS website as well last time I looked! 

 They deserve everything they get 

I'm sure if it continues to be submitted, it will increase to its previous  grade or higher eventually.

At least until another entity with stars in their eyes thinks the grade can be improved upon once again.

And the vicious cycle repeats itself ad infinitum (perhaps ad nauseum would be more apropos).

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bronze & Copper Collector

[ozjohn 472]

On 8/23/2021 at 4:45 PM, Paddy said:

I do Barnstaple Pannier market on Wednesdays and now Saturdays. I do occasional Car boot sales - either Pottington, which is just outside Barnstaple, or, if the weather looks dodgy, Exeter Race Course. I sometimes do Flea markets - there is one this bank holiday Monday 30th Aug at Tapeley Park near Instow (Bideford). 

Always happy to see genuine collectors!

 

I remember going to Barnstable Pannier market when visiting the UK and brought a pair of binoculars for 10 quid not expecting much but they turned out to be very good with excellent optics. Also remember seeing a coin stall there..

[Paulus 1,806]

I've been after one of these (sixpences) for a while, pleased with this

[Sylvester 15]

7 hours ago, Paulus said:

I've been after one of these (sixpences) for a while, pleased with this

Nice!

Love early milled, especially the sixpences.

[Mr T 141]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:48 AM, VickySilver said:

A 1937 proof half crown in 68* sold for 4500USD. Yikes!!! I absolutely don't get it.

Ouch! Someone is going to make big loss at some point.

On 8/23/2021 at 11:40 PM, oldcopper said:

I've just checked and the illustration of the pre-enhanced version of the 1770 proof halfpenny ex Gregory has now been removed from the PGCS website. It was PR65RB, but only one different one is now shown in that classification. It is now PR65+BN, so I suppose it has gained a plus but lost the RB designation, in my opinion a downgrade. A little spot on the neck was a useful pointer. The old version will still be on the CNG archive on sixbid early to mid 2018

So why did they remove it, was it at the behest of the dealer who enhanced it, and didn't want anyone finding out? it would be interesting to see PCGS's reason for removing it from their site, not that they'd ever give it of course.

I'm not saying the third party grading services are dishonest, in the main I'm sure they're very professional, but it's only going to be human nature to push slightly up rather than down if there's wiggle room for an important client  This is easier to do as the grade difference at present doesn't have to be very much to make all the difference to the price, especially in the upper echelons. And all those extra classifications and increments on top of the number grades are just more subjectiveness - cameo, ultra cameo, plus, plus plus, gold star etc etc and are designed to create extra bigger price tiers and value. And it's working.

I thought they removed the old one if you sent in the old slab or the bit of paper in it when resubmitting?

[Bronze & Copper Collector 384]

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

Ouch! Someone is going to make big loss at some point.

I thought they removed the old one if you sent in the old slab or the bit of paper in it when resubmitting?

That was my impression...

Otherwise it would be impossible to keep even semi-accurate population records.

There will always be an overlap of coins which were broken out of the slabs and resubmitted as new submissions. These resubmissions, as opposed to submitting a coin for re-evaluation, will tend to skew the accuracy of the total numbers.

[Mr T 141]

Yeah I got the impression that most resubmissions were cracked out and not sent in the original slab/tag, so I'd say there is an appreciable amount of overlap, but there's not a lot that can be done about that.

[oldcopper 238]

On 9/4/2021 at 7:02 AM, Mr T said:

Ouch! Someone is going to make big loss at some point.

I thought they removed the old one if you sent in the old slab or the bit of paper in it when resubmitting?

In this case it was deslabbed, "enhanced" and then submitted (as basically a new coin).

[Sword 1,226]

Just picked up this sixpence. Common coin of course but the toning is quite nice. 

 

 

[Nonmortuus 742]

A few new shillings:

[Nonmortuus 742]

[Nonmortuus 742]

[Paddy 1,333]

Just received this Halfpenny as an upgrade - 1860 and I believe 1+A - F258. Interesting web of die cracks on the obverse:

[Mr T 141]

Might be 1+A# I think?

[Paddy 1,333]

Yes - I thought so. I use Freeman die numbers usually, and he makes no distinction, but based on Secret Santa's halfpenny site, A# is right. (No knot in the tail.)

 

[Zo Arms 172]

8 hours ago, Mr T said:

Might be 1+A# I think?

I would agree, using the wider spaced 60 and the lack of flag pole, as identifiers.

[Paulus 1,806]

Landed today. Latest for my Charles I halfcrown collection, 1644 Oxford, rare die pairing, Bull 617/6