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Coin aquisition of the week.......

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And another (somewhat mediocre) 1895 Shilling. Fortunately the small rose type though, so my tenner was well spent I think.

1895_small_rose.jpg

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On 4/23/2020 at 11:24 PM, Rob said:

Yes and no. For traditional coin collectors it was probably the equivalent of today's denigrators bemoaning the latest RM output, but I would have thought as an issue for the masses it was probably quite acceptable, being something of an antidote to the economic depression and a contemporary example of art deco. It didn't really circulate, so the people who acquired one bought it because they really wanted one - just like modern day purchasers of RM promotions.

I don't think the denigrators are wrong.

 

wallace_and_gromit_2019_uk_50p_brilliant_uncirculated_coin__reverse_-_uk19wgbu[1].jpg

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Posted (edited)

Incidently George V had a couple of hobbys that most kings that went before would have laughed at they were of course stamp and coin collecting.

Most that went before him were interested in fornication and drink/ drugs.

 

Edited by copper123

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Apparently, coin collecting was already referred to as the "Hobby of Kings"in Renaissance times. However, no one can argue that many kings were indeed far more interested in other pastimes...

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18 hours ago, Sword said:

Apparently, coin collecting was already referred to as the "Hobby of Kings"in Renaissance times. However, no one can argue that many kings were indeed far more interested in other pastimes...

probably because most "Interesting"  coins were gold and silver so at least had an intrinsic worth

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Latest acquisition - recut 3, or 3 over something? 5, as per Spink? The jury's out ...

 

1737_sh_02_ref_02049_01_2400.jpg

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If you asked me to guess, I'd say 'recut 3'. On the other hand, it could be a 5 picked up in error, mistaken for a 3. The next digit is not 5 so it's not a sequence error.

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On 5/1/2020 at 6:41 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

I don't think the denigrators are wrong.

Modern, daring or even unpopular designs are totally different to coins of the realm featuring advertisement for current products. I think it is wrong in principle for coins to feature advertisement as there is no fair method to decide which product to promote. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Sword said:

Modern, daring or even unpopular designs are totally different to coins of the realm featuring advertisement for current products. I think it is wrong in principle for coins to feature advertisement as there is no fair method to decide which product to promote. 

I wonder whether in the late 18th century this was the reaction to some of the more outlandish token designs which people were shelling out serious money for - I'm thinking about the IMO rather ugly "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" piece issued by Summers - when they could of course have been collecting Tudor and Stuart coinage, or hammered/ancient pieces, generally at a fraction of the real cost we pay today. 

What now appears crass and commercial will probably be a charming curio to collectors of the 23rd century...

Edited by JLS

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1 hour ago, JLS said:

What now appears crass and commercial will probably be a charming curio to collectors of the 23rd century...

Like  'Love Island' ?

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On 5/1/2020 at 7:00 PM, copper123 said:

Incidently George V had a couple of hobbys that most kings that went before would have laughed at they were of course stamp and coin collecting.

 

 

If someone is spending other people's money on collecting stamps and coins, they are the Custodian of that collector, not the owner,

and as such, this action of collecting cannot be called a 'hobby'.    

'Distraction', maybe....

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2 hours ago, JLS said:

I'm thinking about the IMO rather ugly "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" piece issued by Summers -

:o That's a great piece!

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45 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

:o That's a great piece!

It is deservedly appreciated, but not I think for its artistic qualities...

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1 hour ago, blakeyboy said:

Like  'Love Island' ?

We can hope such atrocities will be forgotten, but back when I was at university, people were studying Victorian smut rather carefully...

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4 hours ago, JLS said:

I wonder whether in the late 18th century this was the reaction to some of the more outlandish token designs which people were shelling out serious money for - I'm thinking about the IMO rather ugly "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" piece issued by Summers - when they could of course have been collecting Tudor and Stuart coinage, or hammered/ancient pieces, generally at a fraction of the real cost we pay today. 

What now appears crass and commercial will probably be a charming curio to collectors of the 23rd century...

I think there is a difference between a privately minted token and an official coin of the realm. I do find images of Wallace and Gromit rather cheerful but I just think it is bad taste for the government to be advertising private commercial products. I hope we won't eventually end up with limited edition banknotes advertising pop groups or TV series. 

Just had a look at the "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" token. The image is a bit scary at first but I don't dislike it. Owing one is kind of cool I guess. 

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11 hours ago, JLS said:

I wonder whether in the late 18th century this was the reaction to some of the more outlandish token designs which people were shelling out serious money for - I'm thinking about the IMO rather ugly "Wild Man of the Land of Jesso" piece issued by Summers - when they could of course have been collecting Tudor and Stuart coinage, or hammered/ancient pieces, generally at a fraction of the real cost we pay today. 

What now appears crass and commercial will probably be a charming curio to collectors of the 23rd century...

Those are rare exceptions. The vast majority of tokens were - yes, privately minted - but were issued for use in specific areas or even shops due to the chronic lack of small change. If there'd been an adequate supply of base metal coinage it is highly unlikely there would have been a token coinage at all.

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22 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Those are rare exceptions. The vast majority of tokens were - yes, privately minted - but were issued for use in specific areas or even shops due to the chronic lack of small change. If there'd been an adequate supply of base metal coinage it is highly unlikely there would have been a token coinage at all.

I guess in the same way that most of the 50 pences the Royal Mint issues are not (in the words of a newspaper columnist of yesteryear) "celebrating the year of the sausage" ? 

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1 hour ago, JLS said:

I guess in the same way that most of the 50 pences the Royal Mint issues are not (in the words of a newspaper columnist of yesteryear) "celebrating the year of the sausage" ? 

Don't see any parallel whatever.

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1 hour ago, JLS said:

I guess in the same way that most of the 50 pences the Royal Mint issues are not (in the words of a newspaper columnist of yesteryear) "celebrating the year of the sausage" ? 

Shame, it certainly has potential

saus.jpg.98336c2a897061c337e7acf6b30af998.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

Shame, it certainly has potential

saus.jpg.98336c2a897061c337e7acf6b30af998.jpg

I love this admittedly ludicrous medal, I own far too many of them (7 I think ?)

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22 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Don't see any parallel whatever.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that both modern mint commemorative offerings and struck-for collectors 18th century tokens lack any of the constraints which apply to regular coinage, and we might appreciate the former less than they deserve due to a lack of perspective...things made of metal last a long time. I'm sure the commemorative coin mania will be temporary, but IMO it certainly will provide an interesting field for numismatists of the far future. Just look at all the specious Brexit themed 50 pences (of very dubious aesthetic value) being produced for one thing...

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On 4/21/2020 at 4:47 AM, Sword said:

Thanks. The reverse strike is nice I think.

I brought this Rocking Horse Specimen Crown at the same time to tick a box. I have the RE proof and the currency. With hindsight, I might have waited for one with less contact marks. But the tone and lustre are quite good and the price was fair too.

2136048747_1-Copy.jpg.5960f5e21986d7f8f280d7799c8d944b.jpg1775289626_2-Copy.jpg.5020f7bc43f8b8a2bcd79dfafbd7b8a7.jpg

 

 

Many of the marks on this coin are not all due to handling and contacts! rather issues with the Quaternary alloy used. This alloy was pickled in acid to raise the surface silver content, however, during striking the irregular alloy tends to crack and split in raised areas and areas with restricted metal flow. These defects look like contact damage to the naked eye and low magnification but under the electron microscope are revealed to be highly irregular in shape and depth features inconsistent with scratches etc. Elemental scans across these feature reveal enriched copper. 

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I had no idea. Thanks!

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17 hours ago, JLS said:

I love this admittedly ludicrous medal, I own far too many of them (7 I think ?)

and why not, it certainly is a talking point👍🏽

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Excellent addition Shagreen. I have quite a number of these and have looked at them, though not in as great a detail obviously. The TPGs have a hard time in grading this and other coins. 

The pre-struck flans are often rather less than we would hope and so in addition to the surface alloy issues you have described, they seem to come complete with scratches, marks, and numerous imperfections. I have a number of "MODEL" obverse and reverse coins that show this, and were hit hard by the TPGs, and I believe that they are not always able to separate planchet issues - in fact, on occasion are miserable at it.

As a notum: the high points of the devices are the low points of the die, and certainly it might be argued that these are the areas where the flaws show up. One area of interest not affected on your example is the sword and the thigh of St. George. The cheekbone of  King George is an area that many times on both this and the Wreath shows what look to be hits and so harder to find specimens without, given that at least some of them may be due to pre-striking planchet issues.

Were there any other metals in the alloy?

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