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Coin aquisition of the week.......

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Posted (edited)

 

Absolutely right Dave and, oddly enough, this was an auction lot, not a BIN. My £56 winning bid was one of only five so it would appear the coin hadn't been noticed by many people at all.

The maximum bid I'd left was almost four times what I paid, so to say I was pleasantly surprised to find I'd won it for that sum would be an understatement. There's one in the same grade being offered online at the moment for £525!

Edited by Michael-Roo

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3 hours ago, Michael-Roo said:

 

Absolutely right Dave and, oddly enough, this was an auction lot, not a BIN. My £56 winning bid was one of only five so it would appear the coin hadn't been noticed by many people at all.

The maximum bid I'd left was almost four times what I paid, so to say I was pleasantly surprised to find I'd won it for that sum would be an understatement. There's one in the same grade being offered online at the moment for £525!

To say we knock eBay a lot here on the forum, there is actually gems on there waiting to be snapped up, its wading through the other s@@t that makes it monotonous, patience is the key.......

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On 8/16/2019 at 1:14 PM, ozjohn said:

My latest acquisition a 1917 Florin MS 63. It seems to have a few marks on the obverse which  have been discussed previously in these forums and the general opinion was they would be better if they were not there but are  probable as a result of the minting process. Overall a nice coin difficult to obtain in higher grades.

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Got me one of those florin thingies too

Screenshot 2019-08-18 at 16.20.08.png

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And a splendid specimen it is.

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Picked this one up (with 5 other Wreath Crowns) for my own collection today. Just need a genuine 1934 now to finish the series.

 

1936 Cr 1-horz Red.jpg

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8 hours ago, azda said:

Got me one of those florin thingies too

Screenshot 2019-08-18 at 16.20.08.png

Very nice coin. I find obtaining  decent examples of this series very difficult mainly due to the poor strike quality making grading very difficult if not impossible sometimes.

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4 hours ago, Paddy said:

Picked this one up (with 5 other Wreath Crowns) for my own collection today. Just need a genuine 1934 now to finish the series.

 

1936 Cr 1-horz Red.jpg

They may have been only minted for collectors but this one seen some circulation.

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Sorry typo " this one seen' should be "this ones seen".

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5 hours ago, ozjohn said:

Very nice coin. I find obtaining  decent examples of this series very difficult mainly due to the poor strike quality making grading very difficult if not impossible sometimes.

Agreed, it’s graded 63 by NGC

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3 hours ago, azda said:

Agreed, it’s graded 63 by NGC

The same grade as my offering.

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2 hours ago, ozjohn said:

The same grade as my offering.

👍🏻

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On 8/18/2019 at 2:13 PM, azda said:

To say we knock eBay a lot here on the forum, there is actually gems on there waiting to be snapped up, its wading through the other s@@t that makes it monotonous, patience is the key.......

I've found some amazing gems on ebay, even some described correctly and still ending at a bargain.

This i purchased for £50 last year 

1246715962_silverproofwoods2.jpg.3735d0555167f662951e60b7e291357c.jpg223351570_silverproofwoods.jpg.2ea86b067ee0666444855cf635dfefc8.jpg

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 I wish i had found it

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Posted (edited)

Latest coin received today a PCGS MS 62 1918 florin. A scratch on the field of the Obverse which is not too disfiguring. I think these are included as bag marks by PCGS.

Another coin that I have had for a while is a 1911 florin which IMO is better than the 1918 coin I received today. On this basis I would grade about MS 63/64. Although it cannot be seen the milling is pristine . Any comments welcome

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Edited by ozjohn
typo

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On 8/19/2019 at 4:34 AM, ozjohn said:

Sorry typo " this one seen' should be "this ones seen".

or indeed "this one's seen"....:) 

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OZ, IMO based on the photos there is a bit of friction at the cheekbone and eyebrow (common location for such). The field with som random marks. I think the strike very nice. IMO, coin looks to have been dipped and then likely retoned just a bit.

The strike very firm indeed, though the earlier KG5s not as poor as the later war year issues.

I would guess 62, but is a coin I would like to hold [carefully] and see directly.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Vicky,

Not too worried about dipping as IMO any coin that ha been kept for a hundred years would have toned considerably. As for wear hard to say as previously stated the milling is pristine which is something that seems to be neglected in the grading process. However IMO something that should be taken in to consideration in the grading process as any wear will be recorded there. As for the grading IMO the 1918 is graded at MS 62 and I think the 1911 coin is of a higher grade.

Edited by ozjohn

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Yea, you may have a point there. The TPGs tend to be "technical" in their grading (when they are consistent), which is somewhat frustrating. You may recall I posted a while back a shilling 1863/1 that was absolutely struck to the"9"s with PROOFLIKE surfaces. There were hairlines but under micro these were die prep and raised and not on devices. No friction, no nicks, no anything. 

First sent back for "cleaning" - it had been dipped, but they usually aren't bothered by such. It was and is magnificent - which is why I bought it. The second TPG sent it back as a "62". Yikes!

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4 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Yea, you may have a point there. The TPGs tend to be "technical" in their grading (when they are consistent), which is somewhat frustrating. You may recall I posted a while back a shilling 1863/1 that was absolutely struck to the"9"s with PROOFLIKE surfaces. There were hairlines but under micro these were die prep and raised and not on devices. No friction, no nicks, no anything. 

First sent back for "cleaning" - it had been dipped, but they usually aren't bothered by such. It was and is magnificent - which is why I bought it. The second TPG sent it back as a "62". Yikes!

The first failing can be used to advantage as I've had a few bargain die polishing 'details' coins in the past. The second point is high on their list of inconsistencies. Vast numbers seen in plastic have been dipped, but graded nonetheless.  Graffiti is another bugbear as a scratched cross on a hammered coins is a problem sometimes, but not others.

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Yes, almighty Rob is absolutely correct in this. I can't help but think of a few examples - the one that drives me crazy are the proofs (ie 1839, 1887, 1893) in silver and gold especially.

We see sky high prices for coins like the 1893 crown where we can see a "Deep Cameo" Proof 66 go for 10, 000 USD or above! etc, etc.

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11 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Yea, you may have a point there. The TPGs tend to be "technical" in their grading (when they are consistent), which is somewhat frustrating. You may recall I posted a while back a shilling 1863/1 that was absolutely struck to the"9"s with PROOFLIKE surfaces. There were hairlines but under micro these were die prep and raised and not on devices. No friction, no nicks, no anything. 

First sent back for "cleaning" - it had been dipped, but they usually aren't bothered by such. It was and is magnificent - which is why I bought it. The second TPG sent it back as a "62". Yikes!

Hi Vicky,

You make TPG sound like a lottery.

I had a good look at the 1911 under a jeweller's loupe and cannot see any sign of cleaning and it is free from bag marks. I think the reverse is a fairly good strike with 2 of the lions in the top shield are well struck with the third not too bad either and again free from bag marks . The penalty of the reverse being well struck is usually the obverse is not and with the top of the King's ear weakly struck in this case. Often the reverse is true with the ear being well struck and the lions in the top shield weakly struck. Of course I have the advantage of having the coin in hand and for some reason some coins do not seem to scan or photograph well. I was looking at some of the London Coins graded George V florins for sale  on their website  and even some of their CGS 82 graded coins showed weakly struck ears.

Anyhow a grade of MS 62/64 is good.  I'm happy as I think it would be very hard to find a better coin as it seems to be easier to obtain a proof 1911 florin, which I have 2 than a circulation example.

As and aside have you tried to obtain coins from London Coins? I have tried a couple of times in the past when they have something reasonably priced ( this is rare but happens occasionally) but they seem to ignore any request I have made to buy their coins.

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heres my old MS65 for comparison 

56560644_588668884985090_8281069599525437440_n.thumb.jpg.d1a0ef1153fc8f7cc71ca12b5c66d55f.jpg

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Thanks rpeddy. Nice coin that I think confirms my example is somewhere in the MS range . Vickysilver may be right that it may have been dipped but I cannot see any sigh of cleaning through a X10 loupe. I guess this depends on what you think about toning. With your coin it enhances the coin but others it detracts as with this one  http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=retailv2_details&uin=0036757 where the toning does the coin no favors and dipping may enhance the coin. I think most bright coins from this era have probably been dipped at some time especially high grade one that have been sitting in a draw for about a 100 years.. For example I also collect a bit of sterling silver and that starts to tarnish (tone) within a few months unless it is polished regularly.

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Polishing silver with cleaner leaves a deposit on the surface which from my experience results in fairly rapid retoning. Untouched silver takes much longer.

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John, the prices quoted by London Coins in their retail sales are way out of line IMO and after looking a couple of times gave up on that enterprise. In general, the one thing at least to me about TPG graded coins is that they do not penalize as highly for weak strike when it is obviously that and no wear in addition - like the areas of coin you mentioned.

My biggest gripe is that they do not seem consistent on proofs or patterns, and especially matte proofs including of the rare non-standard years. I literally want to put them over my knee and give them a good whack as one would a child. As an example of the former, look on the PCGS census site at the 1839 half crowns in deep cameo - the "63" appears every bit the equal and possibly superior to the "67" on that site. I have seen both in hand, and if anything would give the "67" to the first coin and possibly only a "65" to the second.

(Aside from that, the toning on the "63" is what we used to call "aluminium foil" - quite spectacular in hand and reproduced well on their photos).

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