Coin aquisition of the week.......

[mrbadexample 975]

I do like the Pidcock issues. Trouble is, so do many other people so they tend not to be cheap. I have just two.

[Paulus 1,806]

I just have the one Pidcock at the moment, I do have quite a few nice Kempsons though! Might be worth having a dedicated tokens thread ...

 

[will1976 206]

17 minutes ago, Paulus said:

I just have the one Pidcock at the moment, I do have quite a few nice Kempsons though! Might be worth having a dedicated tokens thread ...

My pidcock is the lion and beaver 1801 in a similar grade to yours and yes I think a token thread would be an excellent idea. I'm never sure about posting tokens in the coin thread!

[mrbadexample 975]

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8342-lets-see-your-copper-coins-tokens-or-medals/

 

[DrLarry 409]

2 hours ago, will1976 said:

Indeed it is, I can't start yet for about six months due to financial commitments so it's research time and choose the theme. I do have one Pidcock farthing so that might be the route I go down

they come up quite a lot in the US I have noticed over the last few years, usually at quite a high price but still it is a good source.  I have a cousin who collects all my US purchases and sends them over every few months as a lot of sellers will only post to a US address.  I also only have one farthing the elephant and the cockatoo and a more common double headed cow half penny ...I should imagine there is an interesting story behind them 

[DrLarry 409]

1 hour ago, will1976 said:

My pidcock is the lion and beaver 1801 in a similar grade to yours and yes I think a token thread would be an excellent idea. I'm never sure about posting tokens in the coin thread!

Personally I would rather see them in a coin thread in order that new collectors can see that there is a whole area of collecting which is a little more "accessible" both in terms of social history and costs....But that is a personal opinion 

[Paulus 1,806]

Here's another of my Kempson designs, just for the hell of it. Quite a good portrait of mad George I think ...

Edited August 10, 2018 by Paulus

[will1976 206]

5 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8342-lets-see-your-copper-coins-tokens-or-medals/

 

Thank you Mr B I shall post my tokens there now! I have the same token as you have there, listed as D&H1069 scarce

[mrbadexample 975]

Just now, will1976 said:

Thank you Mr B I shall post my tokens there now! I have the same token as you have there, listed as D&H1069 scarce

Is there a list of them anywhere, do you know?

[will1976 206]

4 hours ago, DrLarry said:

they come up quite a lot in the US I have noticed over the last few years, usually at quite a high price but still it is a good source.  I have a cousin who collects all my US purchases and sends them over every few months as a lot of sellers will only post to a US address.  I also only have one farthing the elephant and the cockatoo and a more common double headed cow half penny ...I should imagine there is an interesting story behind them 

They do seem to get some real quality pieces over in the US although it's very rare I purchase from that far afield

4 hours ago, DrLarry said:

Personally I would rather see them in a coin thread in order that new collectors can see that there is a whole area of collecting which is a little more "accessible" both in terms of social history and costs....But that is a personal opinion 

I would of carried on posting in the coin thread but as Mr B has found the token thread I feel compelled to use it!

[will1976 206]

2 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Is there a list of them anywhere, do you know?

There is a couple of pages listed in Dalton & Hamer of just the Pidcocks but it's an expensive purchased for just those

[mrbadexample 975]

Cheers, I've got it on PDF somwhere.

[will1976 206]

8 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

Cheers, I've got it on PDF somwhere.

If it's any help the pages numbers in my book are: half penny pages 143-146 farthings page 199. This is the 1990 reprint

[Paulus 1,806]

Upgrade for my 1826 Half Crown 

[Paulus 1,806]

One of them coronation medallion thingummies

[Peckris 2 1,841]

And George IV really looked like that. In his dreams!

[rpeddie 119]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:33 AM, VickySilver said:

Thanks, Jag. I had a whale of a time trying to get pictures, and these not so great. The obverse is actually more PL than it appears and the edges mostly very sharp - although that is hard to make out. Mysteriously, the Scottish mate to this went for 200 quid more!

 

Very interesting that there are a run of what I suppose are best called specimen coins that issued from the Royal Mint. They IMO are of very good quality but not quite meeting the proof standard.

That would include the "duck tailed" reeded  1 shilling, florin and half crown of 1920

1920 halfpenny in Nicholson collection counter stamped with "N" on both obv. and rev.

Possibly the 1924 set that included the 1922 Penny (Rev 1927)

1927 shilling and half crown from Pretoria holdings

1942-45 6d and shillings, 1947 6d, 1951 E shilling 

1966 E & S Shillings

1970 trial halfpenny in nickel

Maybe?? more

 

Not really sure the purpose, but have seen them

 

do you have images of the Pretoria ones at all?

[VickySilver 653]

I have images of the 1922/24 specimen set, of the specimen "pattern" 1927 shilling and crown, the 1927 matte silver set.

I can not remember if the 1920 specimen 1/2 d from Nicholson originated with the Pretoria collection though. Maybe Rob knows.

I am better with emails if you PM me.

[Rob 2,787]

17 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

I have images of the 1922/24 specimen set, of the specimen "pattern" 1927 shilling and crown, the 1927 matte silver set.

I can not remember if the 1920 specimen 1/2 d from Nicholson originated with the Pretoria collection though. Maybe Rob knows.

I am better with emails if you PM me.

According to the Nicholson notes, the 1924 was ex Pretoria via the SNC for March '98, but the 1920 had no indication of the source - only that it was bought from CC in May '98. It wasn't in the Circular for Feb, March or April. The corresponding farthing to the 1924 halfpenny was listed at the same time. The jury must be out on this despite being acquired at around the same time.

[VickySilver 653]

Well, the story may never be known on that. My understanding from several sources is that there were two of the 1922/1924 specimen sets in the Pretoria holdings. One was broken up - see Rob's comments, and the other sold by Heritage about 12 years ago or so and remains intact.

As with a lot of stories that are unwound, at least to me, is uncovering of a lot more mystery. How in the world did Pretoria get so many possibly unique or extremely rare pieces that were not held ANYWHERE else and struck by the London mint? Why in the world did they have all those gold patterns?

I am also wondering if Bob Ilsley (if he is still around) of the old Dolphin Coins might be able to tell anymore. I certainly can not prove it, but am not sure that all these pieces were let go in any competitive situation....

Edited August 21, 2018 by VickySilver

[Rob 2,787]

3 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Well, the story may never be known on that. My understanding from several sources is that there were two of the 1922/1924 specimen sets in the Pretoria holdings. One was broken up - see Rob's comments, and the other sold by Heritage about 12 years ago or so and remains intact.

As with a lot of stories that are unwound, at least to me, is uncovering of a lot more mystery. How in the world did Pretoria get so many possibly unique or extremely rare pieces that were not held ANYWHERE else and struck by the London mint? Why in the world did they have all those gold patterns?

I am also wondering if Bob Ilsley (if he is still around) of the old Dolphin Coins might be able to tell anymore. I certainly can not prove it, but am not sure that all these pieces were let go in any competitive situation....

They may not have gone to Pretoria in the 1920s. Graham Dyer wrote an article in the Circular concerning the 1922 florins (5) and 1927 halfcrowns (4), which appear to have been made in conjunction with a request for coins of their specific composition and colour from Egypt and Romania respectively. Apparently, all were on the Mint books until 1956 when they disappeared. 

What happened in 1956 apart from the Suez crisis?

The article didn't cover the base coins.

[VickySilver 653]

Yes, I remember that article as well - actually I meant specifically the 3d and 6d gold, and was not clear; I am not sure about the florins and half crowns to be sure (the shilling in gold only rumoured to my knowledge. All of the silver matte proofs of the "off years" 20th C. were in SA and theat both 1922/4 sets were there would be more that I meant. Sorry for not being clear there...

 I wonder if being on the books actually meant physically that they were there?

[Mr T 141]

On 8/21/2018 at 10:02 AM, VickySilver said:

I have images of the 1922/24 specimen set, of the specimen "pattern" 1927 shilling and crown, the 1927 matte silver set.

Got links? I found https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-george-v-satin-finish-specimen-set-1924-and-1922-not-listed-in-the-spink-guide-but-well-known-these-are-examples-of-the/a/340-15206.s but there are no images.

[VickySilver 653]

Used to have it on that site, but image may have expired ? I will try to send on what I can find by the weekend.

[Paddy 1,333]

Picked up this one today as a small upgrade to my shilling collection: