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OK - I have checked my stock - I have 66 Churchill Crowns here in various states of preservation.

I find it difficult to tell much difference in the size of the Cs Hs or Rs, but there is a wide variation in the size of the teeth around the rim. It would be too simple to say there are 2 varieties - it seems more as if there is a continuum of variations from barely the tip of the tooth showing to a complete triangle, sometimes almost detached from the rim. In some cases the length varies from one side of the coin to the other and from Reverse to Obverse. My observation would say these are not varieties as such, just variations in strike.

I can hardly photograph all these, but if anyone is seriously studying them I would be happy to lend them to you!

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Paddy, I might have to take you up on that one day if I need more for reference.

I didn't mean to get stuck into these as much as I have but I'm certainly intrigued by them - it's akin to a Loch Ness monster hunt and I'm beginning to become obsessive about a way to easily determine a satin finish from images alone.

Of course it would benefit everyone here who deals in coins if that were a possibility, however I don't expect it to come to much given the subject matter!

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1 hour ago, Paddy said:

OK - I have checked my stock - I have 66 Churchill Crowns here in various states of preservation.

I find it difficult to tell much difference in the size of the Cs Hs or Rs, but there is a wide variation in the size of the teeth around the rim. It would be too simple to say there are 2 varieties - it seems more as if there is a continuum of variations from barely the tip of the tooth showing to a complete triangle, sometimes almost detached from the rim. In some cases the length varies from one side of the coin to the other and from Reverse to Obverse. My observation would say these are not varieties as such, just variations in strike.

I can hardly photograph all these, but if anyone is seriously studying them I would be happy to lend them to you!

I'm not so sure about variation in the strike. In the case of the two coins illustrated, the raised rim is the same width in both cases. As they both have the same diameter, by extension it means that the diameters of the respective toothed portions must be different. In addition, the profile of the short teeth appear to be straight sided triangles, whereas the wider teeth are clearly a series of arcs.

It could be a case of reduction differences, which once transferred to the dies at some point are trimmed at the edges by the later application of the raised rim to a specific size. That still doesn't explain the different profiles seen.

Given the minute differences in some of the bronze series, e.g. the 0.2mm difference in the length of the bowsprit on a pair of halfpennies, I would even go so far as to say that it is more obvious despite the temptation to yawn.

Edited by Rob

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No, I meant MY SPECIMEN. Ex-Spink auction 1990s.

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You should be able to see raised hairlines on the satin specimens which are incuse on the die. Speculation about the total produced from original 3-4 Max to now 8 known specimens 4 by CGS 3 by PCGS and 1 by NGC.  LCA 2013 Sold 1 Satin proof for £1700. Nice if you can get the work :lol:

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10 hours ago, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Paddy, I might have to take you up on that one day if I need more for reference.

I didn't mean to get stuck into these as much as I have but I'm certainly intrigued by them - it's akin to a Loch Ness monster hunt and I'm beginning to become obsessive about a way to easily determine a satin finish from images alone.

Of course it would benefit everyone here who deals in coins if that were a possibility, however I don't expect it to come to much given the subject matter!

No problem! I am in North Devon if you are passing.

Or you can buy them - 50p each plus postage!

And I have similar stocks of 1972 to 1981 Crowns. I buy up job lots for the odd interesting coin but inevitably keep acquiring more of these modern crowns, which all go into a box on the basis that "One day I'll find a use for them". If I had a patio, they would be propping up the chairs by now. Curtain weights maybe?

 

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I think what you need to be aware of with the satin finish crown is that it is a proof strike so there is more than the surface finish to distinguish them.

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