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I think what he has done is to use the Lockdales lot 230 pic to sell lot 229 on EBay.  I have suggested this to him.

I think he dug himself an ever deeper hole by his cursory response, and follow-ups.  But I might bid on the coin I missed at Lockdales, just to piss him off further....

Jerry

 

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Do it!!

It'll be hilarious if you win it for less than you bid originally! Mind you, then he might not fulfil the transaction and lead to even more fun and games!😏

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6 hours ago, jelida said:

Have sent him a polite message, let’s see if he responds. His account may have been hi-jacked, he has been around some time selling coins.......or he may just be a fraudster. 
 

Jerry

I've got a reply - see screenshot. It's self explanatory, but is factually incorrect as the coin in the pic is owned by, and resides with Richard.

Judging by the aggressive tone in the replies you received, Jerry, he's very much on the defensive, having been well and truly caught out.

 

capture 51.PNG

Edited by 1949threepence

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I, too, have now sent him a message and look forward to an articulate and entertaining response.

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His response to me saying that he doesn't own it:

"I do own it. Will you people please stop threatening me!" and he's blocked me.

Time to bid £1000 on it I think and get him excited.

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13 hours ago, jelida said:

I think what he has done is to use the Lockdales lot 230 pic to sell lot 229 on EBay.  I have suggested this to him.

I think he dug himself an ever deeper hole by his cursory response, and follow-ups.  But I might bid on the coin I missed at Lockdales, just to piss him off further....

Jerry

 

Or unsold lot 232?

The 1854 he is supposedly selling is a PT, and 232 is an unsold, also a PT.

Whereas the unsold lot 229 is an OT.  

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He has now sent me a message admitting that he might have posted the wrong picture and will check it when he gets back into work on Monday.

If so, I'll post details on here but it's no excuse for the foul-mouthed denials that he sent before checking his own work.

Apparently, he's getting a lot of abuse so can I ask everyone to hang fire until we hear that he's made a genuine mistake.

Edited by secret santa
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21 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Or unsold lot 232?

The 1854 he is supposedly selling is a PT, and 232 is an unsold, also a PT.

Whereas the unsold lot 229 is an OT.  

The mystery deepens still further.....

According to that Lockdales list above, lots 228, 229 & 232 were unsold, whereas when you look on Lockdales website, they all have a hammer price - link

 

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When you look at Lockdale's catalogue for the auction, every item seems to have a "hammer price" suggesting that everything was sold, which is seemingly not the case. Presumably many of the "hammer prices" are actually the reserve, which was not met ?

But it makes Lockdale's look like a very successful auction house. 

Is there anything we can believe nowadays ???

Edited by secret santa
addition

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35 minutes ago, secret santa said:

When you look at Lockdale's catalogue for the auction, every item seems to have a "hammer price" suggesting that everything was sold, which is seemingly not the case. Presumably many of the "hammer prices" are actually the reserve, which was not met ?

But it makes Lockdale's look like a very successful auction house. 

Is there anything we can believe nowadays ???

All part of the modern trend towards negation or denial of hard facts, perhaps.  

 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Or unsold lot 232?

The 1854 he is supposedly selling is a PT, and 232 is an unsold, also a PT.

Whereas the unsold lot 229 is an OT.  

Yes, that is also possible.  He probably made a simple error - which he wouldn’t have done if he took his own photos, rather than using Lockdales-  but then his short fuse and erroneous assumption he was right let him down. Not a great advert for his  dealings with potential customers.
 

Jerry

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

The mystery deepens still further.....

According to that Lockdales list above, lots 228, 229 & 232 were unsold, whereas when you look on Lockdales website, they all have a hammer price - link

 

That’s what puzzled me, as I bid upper estimate for one and was ‘outbid‘. The reserve must have been above upper estimate!

But I like Lockdales....the 1862 B/R penny in VF at £8 came from one of their trays at the Midland, and I also bought my 1863 die no 3 and  1882 no H there at reasonable prices, and an excellent unrecognised F763 for £180. 
 

Jerry

Edited by jelida
Typo
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1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Is there anything we can believe nowadays ???

If it looks like fake news, if it walks like fake news, if it quacks like fake news...

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34 minutes ago, jelida said:

Yes, that is also possible.  He probably made a simple error - which he wouldn’t have done if he took his own photos, rather than using Lockdales-  but then his short fuse and erroneous assumption he was right let him down. Not a great advert for his  dealings with potential customers.
 

Jerry

Indeed. His first recourse when challenged should have been to examine the evidence and report back having done so, to either counter with a rational disagreement, or admit he made an error and apologise. Instead he chose to fly off the handle, which is offputting as far as possible future transactions are concerned, as it looks defensive. Which might lead a potential buyer to believe he has something to hide, even if that is untrue.  

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Surely the fact that he is selling a coin that he does not possess enough rope?

You can then ignore all the photo mix-ups, or is he genuinely a confused idiot, and is 

unknowingly using the picture of a coin that Richard has in his possession to sell another?

 

Is he reading all this?

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I do believe that he has mixed his photos up unintentionally but has been unwilling to even consider that it might be his fault.

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He has now removed the listing. I think it was an honest mistake but it's a pity he didn't check after our first polite interventions.

All's well that ends well, though it leaves a few questions about Lockdale's declared results.......

And I've just received this message from him:

You were correct the item has been took down the correct one relisted later tonight.

I am sorry for the confusion.

Edited by secret santa
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On 11/29/2020 at 10:26 AM, 1949threepence said:

The mystery deepens still further.....

According to that Lockdales list above, lots 228, 229 & 232 were unsold, whereas when you look on Lockdales website, they all have a hammer price - link

 

Not the only dodgy goings on. I 'won' lot 1093 in the last BSJ sale with a hammer price of £370. Prices realised now show a hammer price of £410, i.e. £10 above my max. It will be interesting to see where it reappears, as the buyer is presumably able to outbid you after the auction.

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"Not the only dodgy goings on. I 'won' lot 1093 in the last BSJ sale with a hammer price of £370. Prices realised now show a hammer price of £410, i.e. £10 above my max. It will be interesting to see where it reappears, as the buyer is presumably able to outbid you after the auction."

 

Possibly "bought in" by the auctioneers?

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Just now, bagerap said:

"Not the only dodgy goings on. I 'won' lot 1093 in the last BSJ sale with a hammer price of £370. Prices realised now show a hammer price of £410, i.e. £10 above my max. It will be interesting to see where it reappears, as the buyer is presumably able to outbid you after the auction."

 

Possibly "bought in" by the auctioneers?

Maybe, but that's a bit naughty. If it is on the book in advance of knock down then fair enough, but after the event means they would effectively be choosing which lots they want for themselves, making bidding irrelevant.

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17 minutes ago, Rob said:

Not the only dodgy goings on. I 'won' lot 1093 in the last BSJ sale with a hammer price of £370. Prices realised now show a hammer price of £410, i.e. £10 above my max. It will be interesting to see where it reappears, as the buyer is presumably able to outbid you after the auction.

Will you be querying the situation with them?

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21 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Will you be querying the situation with them?

I might, because the hammer price should be the end of it.

Having enquired, they say that a later bid made it 410 and maybe my page hadn't refreshed, which is a bit confusing given the next two lots had also closed, so those lots were refreshed as the bid buttons had disappeared. Not convinced.

Edited by Rob

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

I might, because the hammer price should be the end of it.

Having enquired, they say that a later bid made it 410 and maybe my page hadn't refreshed, which is a bit confusing given the next two lots had also closed, so those lots were refreshed as the bid buttons had disappeared. Not convinced.

I've had similar with DNW in the past where it's passed from "still with me and against you online" to "and it's now online", where I know damn well I was the last bidder before the hammer, but I've not got the coin. So now I always advance bid high and video the proceedings of the relevant coin, in case there's any subsequent shenanigans. That's absolute hard proof of winning (especially if the last bid has not reached my advance bid), from which there is no possible way out once they've hammered and moved onto the next coin - plus it shows on screen.  

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The 'winning' bid of 370 was showing at least a dozen lots down the line because I went back to it when I had passed the last lot of interest, so either they are using a platform which doesn't show up to date bids, which would be a chocolate teapot, or something iffy is going on. I suppose both are possibilities given the difficulties using the auction mobility software, but it should update the final price given the increments register when you hit the bid button. I guess it's a reason not to worry too much about bidding on a sale in real time given the possible waste of a morning or more.

As for you with DNW, at least the auctioneer is there in real time. This is an automated sale with no human input. i.e. it should just work.

Edited by Rob

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Uggh, I think this has happened to many of us. I find it to happen when they are flying through the lots on different venues....

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