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1 hour ago, jelida said:

The PAS will not value a find, though ‘Treasure’ items are valued by the ‘Treasure Valuation Committee’ as part of the Treasure process, if found to be Treasure and a museum wishes to acquire. As a single find it would not qualify. But this coin does not appear to have been reported to the PAS, and I suspect that the landowner is unaware of its existence, if genuine. To my mind it is not an obvious fake, as most are, and indeed may be a die duplicate of the PAS one .

Jerry

I've done an image comparison on computer, taking perspective distortions etc into account (I'm used to doing this when comparing Iceni coins with published dies), and details on this coin and the PAS one appear virtually identical right down to die flaws. I did contact the seller yesterday telling him this - he explained why he doesn't want to send it to PAS or EMC

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12 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

 IF... however, the problem is that a Viking king Eric in the north is not necessarily Bloodaxe - Eric was a common name.

Could be an Eric Morecambe commemorative token

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8 hours ago, hibernianscribe said:

I agree, PAS does not value the item. However a professional valuation is asked for by the FLO that is inserted in his/her notification to PAS. This also assists any museum in their decision whether to express an interest. Frank 

I am surprised that this happens in your area, it certainly doesn’t in mine (Wales, Hereford and Shropshire) for non-treasure items and for two fairly straightforward reasons; firstly, valuation (and it’s costs) is not a funded part of the FLO’s remit, and indeed could open him/her up to challenge -and secondly, for a non treasure item a museum ( or other State entity) has no right of acquisition and therefore advance valuations would be a pointless expense. Of course, should a finder wish to sell a non treasure find, then normally both parties will seek valuations informal or otherwise and hopefully reach an amicable settlement. I have recently undertaken to donate a Saxon coin that I purchased at auction  (Noonans) as it is an important Herefordshire find to the Museum involving a £5k gift on my part , the purchase price was taken as the market value. That coin had been through the PAS and recorded by the EMC in 2022 without valuation - difficult anyway as a unique coin.

Even for Treasure items, valuation comes late in the formal process and then only after a wish to acquire has been expressed. If Treasure is disclaimed and returned jointly to finder/ landowner, it is up to them to sort out their financial commitments to each other - hence the need for prior agreements.

As I stated earlier, it does not appear that this coin, if indeed a find, ever entered the PAS process.

Jerry

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Jerry, I must admit what you say does make sense. Maybe my recollection is blurred! I therefore need to trawl back through the correspondence to confirm exactly what was asked for by the FLO. However, I was certainly asked to obtain valuations prior to the PAS submission but since all of this was being done through my MD club (it was a club site on which I found this gold artefact) I am now wondering  whether the club was asking for the valuations in order to negotiate a settlement with the landowner once the PAS process gave the all-clear which is what eventually happened. Frank 

Edited by hibernianscribe
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Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

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2 hours ago, JJs said:

Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

That is an impressive piece of work. So either both coins are genuine, or neither is. As the PAS is not infallible, at this point I’m going to sit on the fence. I would comment that there are a number of Eric coins on the EMC database, of many different dies, including nice round coins. There will be more genuine coins out there.

Jerry

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13 hours ago, JJs said:

Some background to the Eric Saga.

The 4th pic down in the Ebay listing is a St Peter/Sihtric penny which the seller found before his Eric. This was submitted to EMC (2018.0435) and PAS (DENO-FCA770) and eventually sold by CNG (https://auctions.cngcoins.com/lots/view/4-QVUN2/anglo-saxon-anglo-viking-hiberno-norse-northumbria-st-peter-coinage-circa-921-927-ar-penny-20mm-123-g-3h-swordcross-type-bmc-1-york-mint-struck-under-sihtric-ii-caech)

Also I uploaded a video superimposing/animating his Eric over the PAS one (YORYM-BA2295), at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b1QpPVzrKM

Ditto to the "I'm impressed". But the two coins are so similar that I'd say they probably must have come from the same location? Too much of a coincidence otherwise?

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I personally would start smelling a rat!

What’s the alignment between the reverse and observe of the two coins, do we know?


In the bottom right of the video, where the metal appears to stretch out, like it’s been struck slightly more heavily at that point, I’d expect to see some differences in the height/movement of the devices between the two coins on account of that. Also the beading is so perfectly matched for both coins, though in the bottom left of the video it appears as though the beading has been chopped, maybe filed?

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If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, it is a rat and should not be bought. Just my opinion.

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How long before the 'COPY' beneath Britannia's shield is carefully rubbed away and it's offered on eBay for 3 figures? :(

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That is just bonkers, ‘certified a genuine not genuine copy!’ Unbelievable!

Edited by Coinery
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1 hour ago, Coinery said:

That is just bonkers, ‘certified a genuine not genuine copy!’ Unbelievable!

Sounds like typical 21st century logic. 

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24 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

More from Blakeyboy's favourite seller...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234888374858?hash=item36b0702a4a:g:wtsAAOSw~ZNj4fCP

Who would have thought that verdigris would be such a selling point?! 😉

Indeed, it’s so corroded that I can’t even tell if it’s a genuine fake!

Jerry

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Looks like he's taken the trouble to type up a Certificate of Authenticity.... so it must be bona fide....or maybe he's just going to put it in that lovely box when the coin changes address (COA). 

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I remember seeing advertisements for "Certified Genuine Facsimile Autographed Baseballs".

Does that translate to that they are guaranteeing them to be fakes? Or Genuine Fakes??  It's Ludicrous. And people buy them.

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

Here we go again...

"New" seller in Leeds, but same old guff...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385421080558?hash=item59bce2f7ee:g:SCwAAOSwhtxj7Tf7

 

If this is all made up, then how much lower can you sink than to assert that the proceeds will go to a motor neurone disease charity, and even quoting the names of a couple of well known sufferers. 

 

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49 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

If this is all made up, then how much lower can you sink than to assert that the proceeds will go to a motor neurone disease charity, and even quoting the names of a couple of well known sufferers. 

 

But at least we get to see the chimney from which it came....perhaps when they built the house the King laid the foundation stone...in the chimney they did smoke a lot back then so perhaps it makes sense 

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I wonder why in the age of the algorithm some bright spark at ebay does not list a range of all the reported and or rare coins by date and type and when they get listed they get looked at and questioned.?  there is a lovely Elizabeth 1st Crown up on ebay with a mintmark WRL I noticed this morning.  

whenever there is some convoluted story attached or some long history of the monarch,  somehow they think that is enough to capture the attention of a buyer.  

Edited by DrLarry

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12 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I wonder why in the age of the algorithm some bright spark at ebay does not list a range of all the reported and or rare coins by date and type and when they get listed they get looked at and questioned.? 

Are you kidding? ebay tacitly encourages the selling of fakes by paying no more than lip service to their "policing". They don't care what sells, as long as it sells and they make money. :rolleyes:

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That said I must have 30 or so George III fakes that I simply cannot list. If I get them through the original listing process someone always reports me. A bit annoying really considering that these can be quite desirable.

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4 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

Here we go again...

"New" seller in Leeds, but same old guff...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385421080558?hash=item59bce2f7ee:g:SCwAAOSwhtxj7Tf7

 

The seller ID may be fresh but that idiosyncratic voice is familiar.

Is this now a third 1933 penny and accompanying tall tale in as many years?

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1 hour ago, Michael-Roo said:

The seller ID may be fresh but that idiosyncratic voice is familiar.

Is this now a third 1933 penny and accompanying tall tale in as many years?

Also strikes me as a perfectly literate individual deliberately disguising their writing in an attempt to appear uneducated.  

Edited by 1949threepence

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