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1 hour ago, Diaconis said:

 

...and how to grade 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-Silver-1-2-Crown-1902-Beautiful-UNC-/233352462223?nav=SEARCH

Bunc?, Abunc or bunkum, more like, not to mention that asking price😯

I bought a few 1902’s (in far better condition btw) when top grades sold for +/-£160, and that’s only a couple of years ago. I now see examples being touted for upwards of £300-400. Whether they sell for that is another matter of course. Greedy.

I don't have a problem with his grade on that, but the price is ridiculous. I'm not sure how you could find "far better condition"?

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5 hours ago, Diaconis said:

 

...and how to grade 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Edward-Silver-1-2-Crown-1902-Beautiful-UNC-/233352462223?nav=SEARCH

Bunc?, Abunc or bunkum, more like, not to mention that asking price😯

I bought a few 1902’s (in far better condition btw) when top grades sold for +/-£160, and that’s only a couple of years ago. I now see examples being touted for upwards of £300-400. Whether they sell for that is another matter of course. Greedy.

 

 

You should see what some dealers are trying to charge for an MS64 1887 5 sovereign, £6000, geezus, you can buy the complete currency set for less. I feel some dealers (British) are playing on these numerical grades now (saying they are investments) and trying to pump the shit out of coins

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Yep, like some US dealers.  There's always someone who will bite.....

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I always cheer for the fools bidding on the gold 5 sovs. Spend, spend, spend.   For what? I think one of the BSJ proofs was estimated at something like 60k quid

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10 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I always cheer for the fools bidding on the gold 5 sovs. Spend, spend, spend.   For what? I think one of the BSJ proofs was estimated at something like 60k quid

£60k...that was for a Una and the Lion right ? Still crazy. 

If it's for an 1887 or 1893... 😮 those are not even rare coins....

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JLS said:

£60k...that was for a Una and the Lion right ? Still crazy. 

If it's for an 1887 or 1893... 😮 those are not even rare coins....

There was an 1893 proof that went for £45k (inc bp) in June😯😮😲

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45 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

There was an 1893 proof that went for £45k (inc bp) in June😯😮😲

The mintage is over 700...

Must have been a very happy vendor. I can't imagine the prices staying this high because you could buy a whole set ten years ago for around £10-15k - I imagine there are a fair few people who bought back then or earlier who'll be tempted to submit to PCGS or NGC and cash in. 

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1887 and 1893 5 sovs are ALWAYS available - not IMO rarities. This also makes me wonder how many actual collectors there are of these, so NOT a usual supply/demand situation. 

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It was an ms64 cameo 🥳

The causation would appear to be tpgc grading and all the bs hyperbole surrounding it. Rarity doesn’t seem to count so much if you have a population topper, even of a relatively common coin.

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1 hour ago, Diaconis said:

It was an ms64 cameo 🥳

The causation would appear to be tpgc grading and all the bs hyperbole surrounding it. Rarity doesn’t seem to count so much if you have a population topper, even of a relatively common coin.

If we’re talking about the same coins here? the coin that was being discussed was a raw coin, Menzies said if it would get an MS64 then it would be £6k, I disputed that and showed a recently sold MS64 that sold for $3800 inc commission. Someone popped up with an MS64+ PL which was a ridiculous $7kxx which I said wasn’t a straight MS64, these boys are just pushing their own agenda of greed imo.

But I may have crossed wires as you never quoted which reply you were talking about, I've assumed the 1887 as you quote MS64, but you might be talking about the 1893 which would be PF or PR grade

Edited by azda

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There’s now talk of a 1937 £5 in 67 grade that should be worth £60k 🤣🤣🤣 honestly, throw a dart and see where it lands 🤷‍♀️

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1 hour ago, VickySilver said:

1887 and 1893 5 sovs are ALWAYS available - not IMO rarities. This also makes me wonder how many actual collectors there are of these, so NOT a usual supply/demand situation. 

The funny thing is, the 64 is quite common in that grade, 33 at PCGS and I think there was 38 at NGC

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1 hour ago, azda said:

But I may have crossed wires as you never quoted which reply you were talking about, I've assumed the 1887 as you quote MS64, but you might be talking about the 1893 which would be PF or PR grade

I was replying to JLS

3 hours ago, JLS said:

If it's for an 1887 or 1893... 😮 those are not even rare coins....

Yes, sorry Asda, I said it was a proof but called it an MS. it’s a PR64. Here’s link to it on numisbids.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3234&lot=2070

 

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36 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

I was replying to JLS

Yes, sorry Asda, I said it was a proof but called it an MS. it’s a PR64. Here’s link to it on numisbids.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3234&lot=2070

 

Yes I wasn’t sure, but wow that’s some price, I personally don’t see the appeal of that sort of money for the coin. Grade chasers.

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2 hours ago, azda said:

If we’re talking about the same coins here? the coin that was being discussed was a raw coin, Menzies said if it would get an MS64 then it would be £6k, I disputed that and showed a recently sold MS64 that sold for $3800 inc commission. Someone popped up with an MS64+ PL which was a ridiculous $7kxx which I said wasn’t a straight MS64, these boys are just pushing their own agenda of greed imo.

But I may have crossed wires as you never quoted which reply you were talking about, I've assumed the 1887 as you quote MS64, but you might be talking about the 1893 which would be PF or PR grade

Dave, sorry to jump in on this message but I really think your over thinking this all, there's aren't conspiracies out there. I don't sell gold proofs or these graded £5 as I simply can't afford them, like most collectors, however abroad there has been for years high demand for this type of coin and they've driven the market place for them. If they are willing to pay the prices mentioned it doesn't mean people are pushing an agenda of greed. Im sure you've sold coins at a profit in the past, and if a dealer does there's no harm.

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Things that are flavour of the month have done this in many ares for years.

If something is liked, and may be an investment, when interest rates are low or even negative, this happens.

I went this summer to look at a recording console in Malmö, just a small one about five feet wide, and I asked how much it was up for, and the reply was "250".  I asked if that was Kroner, much laughter.   £250K.....  Was that crazy?  Surprising, yes, but it went for that amount, the customer was pleased,the seller was pleased, and went and spent the money on other things.

 

Was this greed? I don't think so.....

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3 hours ago, Diaconis said:

I was replying to JLS

Yes, sorry Asda, I said it was a proof but called it an MS. it’s a PR64. Here’s link to it on numisbids.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3234&lot=2070

 

Is it just me, or is this not actually a choice piece? The frosting might be excellent but I don't like the marks in the field. 

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5 hours ago, Diaconis said:

The causation would appear to be tpgc grading and all the bs hyperbole surrounding it. Rarity doesn’t seem to count so much if you have a population topper, even of a relatively common coin.

1

Doesn't quoting oneself seem rather arrogant? Anyway, I'll risk it.

There's a newcomer on the block, what's your opinion on this one JLS?

3580273.jpg.e44b0c782e0d08257d9c0d7a64b60b03.jpg

Victoria gold Proof 5 Pounds 1893 PR67 S Ultra Cameo NGC 2017 $150k(inc bp) Heritage auction 3051. And get this "quite possibly the finest survivor from the original 773 examples"

(Looks scratched to me🤭)

Greg? Are you hovering?, I think Spink better revise their £16,500 FDC (PR66-70) pricing, or maybe just not take account of silly American prices.

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As for "looks scratched to me" -- which are you going to believe -- the Proof 67 grade or your lying eyes? 🤐

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2 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Doesn't quoting oneself seem rather arrogant? Anyway, I'll risk it.

There's a newcomer on the block, what's your opinion on this one JLS?

3580273.jpg.e44b0c782e0d08257d9c0d7a64b60b03.jpg

Victoria gold Proof 5 Pounds 1893 PR67 S Ultra Cameo NGC 2017 $150k(inc bp) Heritage auction 3051. And get this "quite possibly the finest survivor from the original 773 examples"

(Looks scratched to me🤭)

Greg? Are you hovering?, I think Spink better revise their £16,500 FDC (PR66-70) pricing, or maybe just not take account of silly American prices.

Yeah...I wouldn't go so far as calling that a problem coin...but it's definitely been mishandled at some point. aFDC with surface marks, can't be above a PR65. But these numbers are really a marketing trick with US auction houses, I think they tend to get the best number from the TPG that's plausible\. At least we don't have the nonsense of CAC labels with British coins. 

Looking through London Coin's archives, it's extraordinary to me that you could buy one of these described as "nFDC" for under £2000 less than 20 years ago. 

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11 hours ago, mhcoins said:

Dave, sorry to jump in on this message but I really think your over thinking this all, there's aren't conspiracies out there. I don't sell gold proofs or these graded £5 as I simply can't afford them, like most collectors, however abroad there has been for years high demand for this type of coin and they've driven the market place for them. If they are willing to pay the prices mentioned it doesn't mean people are pushing an agenda of greed. Im sure you've sold coins at a profit in the past, and if a dealer does there's no harm.

I agree with you Alan, I’m not saying you are selling these, I just think some are pushing or trying to force these high prices, of course, there are people who are willing to pay these prices, but as I said on the thread, these coins are not really for collectors at these prices, these are for investors who have more money than sense. Yes I’ve sold a few coins at profit, but my profit would be 100-200, not 1000s, I don’t begrudge anyone making money, but when there’s figures being plucked out of the air such as 60k for a 1937 £5 where does that figure come from? That’s 6x the price of a complete set, sorry, but I just don’t get that, same with the currency 1887, a set recently sold at LC for £3800 which definitely shows there’s more money than sense in the numbers game

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9 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Doesn't quoting oneself seem rather arrogant? Anyway, I'll risk it.

There's a newcomer on the block, what's your opinion on this one JLS?

3580273.jpg.e44b0c782e0d08257d9c0d7a64b60b03.jpg

Victoria gold Proof 5 Pounds 1893 PR67 S Ultra Cameo NGC 2017 $150k(inc bp) Heritage auction 3051. And get this "quite possibly the finest survivor from the original 773 examples"

(Looks scratched to me🤭)

Greg? Are you hovering?, I think Spink better revise their £16,500 FDC (PR66-70) pricing, or maybe just not take account of silly American prices.

It’s quite possible that Spink doesn’t look at slabbed coins? @CoinageBritannia can maybe tell us?

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16 hours ago, JLS said:

Is it just me, or is this not actually a choice piece? The frosting might be excellent but I don't like the marks in the field. 

I think it's just a very poor photograph. When any auctioneer is asking so much for a coin, you'd hope their images would be of high quality. A photograph is now often the buyers eyes, therefore you'd hope that they'd get the best images possible for illustration. 

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7 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

I think it's just a very poor photograph. When any auctioneer is asking so much for a coin, you'd hope their images would be of high quality. A photograph is now often the buyers eyes, therefore you'd hope that they'd get the best images possible for illustration. 

I think if you compare JM Una picture and compare it against the PCGS picture there’s definitely a huge difference. Take the picture is the correct lighting set up and the hairlines disappear.

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32 minutes ago, mhcoins said:

I think it's just a very poor photograph. When any auctioneer is asking so much for a coin, you'd hope their images would be of high quality. A photograph is now often the buyers eyes, therefore you'd hope that they'd get the best images possible for illustration. 

In a sales catalog I like photographs of which show all the defects of a piece, not which hide them using clever lighting.

Having said that the grader will have viewed the coin under multiple lighting conditions. You’re right that it’s hard to judge the condition of this piece based on one set of photos. 

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