Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Rob

Is the market out of control?

Recommended Posts

I love slabbing but please keep it in the US and with modern coins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love slabbing but please keep it in the US and with modern coins.

Amen to that! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen the term "condition rarity" bandied about by Americans, instead of just the usual sort of rarity where there are few pieces.

In any coin series there are certain dates and varieties that might be exceptionally rare in mint state (the 1827 penny for example). In the US, we've taken this concept of condition rarity to the extreme where we actually differentiate rarities based on eleven grades of mint state ranging from 60 to 70. There are even "population reports' on the numbers of each variety encapsulated at the various mint state grade levels (60 to 70) and many collectors and dealers religiously follow and rely on these reports to determine how "rare" a coin might be, for example, in MS-65 versus MS-64. So even a very common coin of which millions were struck and of which millions are known in mint state can be considered "rare" because very few have been awarded an MS-65 versus an MS-64. This is a purely artificial definition of rarity created to enrich the grading services and the dealers whom they serve. Oftimes many thousands of dollars are lost and gained on the basis of such nonsense.

So on that basis, a coin graded Crap02 must be phenomenally rare, certainly rarer than mint state pieces.

There is hope for my circulated 1967 penny yet. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is always the case of the 1963 proof 70 deep cameo slabbed by pcgs that sold for $40,250 in 2004

Heritage

http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/v...336&Lot_No=4944

It subseqently developed spotting in the slab and was bought back by PCGS.......

It's a HIGH premium for a common coin, just to say you have the finest known specimen...

The grading fever can and does get out of hand all too often, but, as I have said before in other threads, certification does have its benefits, especially regarding detection of counterfeits and altered coins, something that occurs too often with rare date US coins, but not as predominent with GB coinage yet... a few dates not withstanding.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Thick mint frosting" "Deep cherry-red color" sorry but is this a coin or a cake??

While I pity the saps who had to sit through the other 3,000,000 or so coins to find it, this is surely just overblown cr*p? And as for developing spotting in the slab - I could weep :lol:

I just hope Lockdales et al never get anyone to believe in slabbing hammered or I'm giving up!

(Oh bother - sorry Rob! Kinda deviated from the topic in my anti-slab rant mode!) Yes, the market is a bit overblown - I blame the stock market. Hopefully as the weather cools so will prices (or then we may follow the US and be heading for more 'realistic' prices - whatever that means!)

Edited by TomGoodheart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who imprisons coins deserves the dreaded 'slab virus'. And, no, I didn't start it! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the prices for today's DNW sale, a lot of things went for an awful lot of money. Lot 99 for an 1877 penny F90 which admittedly is rare (Freeman says R18), but is it worth a hammer price of £3100 for a piece in fair? The estimate by the way was £50-100.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking at the prices for today's DNW sale, a lot of things went for an awful lot of money. Lot 99 for an 1877 penny F90 which admittedly is rare (Freeman says R18), but is it worth a hammer price of £3100 for a piece in fair? The estimate by the way was £50-100.

To digress slightly on the subject of estimates, did anyone see Princess Margaret's stuff go last week? There was a purple leather jewellery box for £350-$500 estimate that went for near £50,000. Perhaps they just do it to hook people in - same with coins?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Eric Dawson

Looking at the prices for today's DNW sale, a lot of things went for an awful lot of money. Lot 99 for an 1877 penny F90 which admittedly is rare (Freeman says R18), but is it worth a hammer price of £3100 for a piece in fair? The estimate by the way was £50-100.

To digress slightly on the subject of estimates, did anyone see Princess Margaret's stuff go last week? There was a purple leather jewellery box for £350-$500 estimate that went for near £50,000. Perhaps they just do it to hook people in - same with coins?

Hi Rob,

Hope it is not too much of a bother but do you know what the 1864 xlet, 1869, and 1871 pennies went for?

Thanks,

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's possible that they do it on some level to "hook people in".....

However, I think a more important reason that auction houses might underestimate the estimates is that, when the final hammer price far exceeds the estimates, they can claim either "how hot the market is, it's a great time to sell", and also to claim how successful they are at sales/auctions/etc, and that THEY (the auctioneers) are the company that you should use......

There are probably other aspects as well, but this, to me, is one of the most obvious....

Incidentally, I feel that in the DNW sale today, some items went rather cheaply, and others brought a significant premium....... I do note however, that the TRUE CLASSIC RARITIES brought excellent prices.... which is how it should be..... Those are ALWAYS in demand......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rob,

Hope it is not too much of a bother but do you know what the 1864 xlet, 1869, and 1871 pennies went for?

Thanks,

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's possible that they do it on some level to "hook people in".....

However, I think a more important reason that auction houses might underestimate the estimates is that, when the final hammer price far exceeds the estimates, they can claim either "how hot the market is, it's a great time to sell", and also to claim how successful they are at sales/auctions/etc, and that THEY (the auctioneers) are the company that you should use......

There are probably other aspects as well, but this, to me, is one of the most obvious....

Incidentally, I feel that in the DNW sale today, some items went rather cheaply, and others brought a significant premium....... I do note however, that the TRUE CLASSIC RARITIES brought excellent prices.... which is how it should be..... Those are ALWAYS in demand......

There are 2 main reasons why estimates are low. The first as you say is to get people in, the second reason is that auction houses which are also dealers will offer to buy in unsold lots at a bit less than estimate, so a reduced estimate results in a lower cost to them. Lowering the estimate will minimise the unsold lots of course and so reduce their potential outlay.

Too low an estimate also means that some bidders will be discouraged from going too high and so sometimes you can get pieces you want cheaply as I found today. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×