Is it worth slabbing a valuable coin?

[hactonhouse 0]

Hi,

I have a number of British coins which in my opinion are high value.

I do not feel I have sufficient knowledge to accurately grade them with any confidence.

At some stage in the future I will be disposing of duplicates I have accumulated.

Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to produce quality photos like Chris.

I appreciate from reading previous posts that a lot of readers would identify me as a Phillistine for even considering slabbing.

I also noticed that Chris recently got a very impressive price for a slabbed 1934 crown.

If my coins were slabbed there could be no comeback or criticism of my grading.

Additionally I believe the coins would be of more interest to our Colonial friends if slabbed.

Should I slab my coins to increase their saleability?

If so, which company should I approach?

Finally, can anyone help as to cost?

regards,

John

[Rob 2,998]

Hi,

I have a number of British coins which in my opinion are high value.

I do not feel I have sufficient knowledge to accurately grade them with any confidence.

At some stage in the future I will be disposing of duplicates I have accumulated.

Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to produce quality photos like Chris.

I appreciate from reading previous posts that a lot of readers would identify me as a Phillistine for even considering slabbing.

I also noticed that Chris recently got a very impressive price for a slabbed 1934 crown.

If my coins were slabbed there could be no comeback or criticism of my grading.

Additionally I believe the coins would be of more interest to our Colonial friends if slabbed.

Should I slab my coins to increase their saleability?

If so, which company should I approach?

Finally, can anyone help as to cost?

regards,

John

The first thing you do with a slabbed coin is disregard the grade and description and check for yourself the condition and identity. Unfortunately, the US grading companies are not that familiar with British coins and frequently overgrade. MS64 for an EF - gEF is quite common as are incorrect attributions. The best use I have found for slabbed coins from say NGC or PCGS is that they mention if it has been cleaned which is not always clear in a slab. The best thing is to learn to grade correctly and stick with it. Punters on eBay will rarely believe you if you give a grade, but nobody is forced to sell a £1000 coin for 99p so stick to your guns and don't underprice yourself.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Unfortunately I do not have the equipment to produce quality photos like Chris.

I totally agree with Rob's post. Also if you decided against slabbing, you could use the fees that you would have paid to buy a good digital camera.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Emperor Oli

[Chris Perkins 223]

The slabbed '34 I had wasn't slabbed by me. I don't think I'd go to the risk of sending valuable coins to the USA to get them slabbed, unless they were American or Canadian coins (which do go a bit mad when slabbed as very high grades). I've done it with Canadian coins before, and it's not that cheap really and only worth doing for the coins that you consider to be practically perfect. I sent 6 coins and 4 came back MS60+, 2 of which were MS64 and the other 2 were AU58.

Most British coins still sell within the UK, and while it may be worthwhile doing it with the almost legendary modern coins, eg a top grade 1934 crown, a 1937 Sovereign, 1905 halfcrown, 1869 penny (all have to be UNC or better) etc...I'd personally not consider it for coins under £500 value, and I don't think the values of most coins would be increased all that much by slabbing. When sending things from the UK, the maximum insured value to the USA is only £500 and even that's touch and go if when something goes missing the RM decide it was 'money' and don't cover it!

The best thing to do (and I have considered this) is save up a few top grade rare valuable coins (worth say £10,000 minimum to make it worthwhile) and visit one of the coin shows in the US where they grade them while you wait. Having say 10 coins authenticated, each worth about £1000 each to start with may well make them more interesting enough to cover your air fair. But....they are strict at PCGS/NGC etc, and you should bear in mind, that all the coins need to turn out at least MS63 to give them that extra something. No one will pay much over catalogue for most MS60's or below, and certainly most AU58's and below aren't worth slabbing.

[Rob 2,998]

A good example of silly prices asked in the US for slabbed pieces is lot 2434 in next week's Goldberg auction. It is a proof 1893 shilling slabbed NGC Proof 67 with an estimate of $800-900. This for a coin which Spink prices at £95. Pay a premium for a really good example by all means, but bear in mind that this was on the Northeast Numismatics website for quite a while at $1750 and unsurprisingly didn't sell. A lot of the other British pieces in this auction are from the same source and were equally overpriced on the NEN list.

[TomGoodheart 373]

You don't say the age of the coins you have. I presume they are all milled but if there are any hammered I personally really don't think slabbing is much cop. The US system is still unable to cope with the 'subtleties' of hammered coins.

Oddly I recently bought a coin that had been on sale in the States and received it with a PCGS label so it had been graded. I don't know if the slab was subsequently removed or if it had been left unslabbed (ie whether you can just get things graded?)

Finally, I get reasonable pic results with a scanner (see Gallery) - might be worth trying if you have access to one?

[hactonhouse 0]

Hi,

Many thanks for your helpful comments and advice.

After reading them I am now of the view that I should indeed perhaps look to

a better camera and improving my grading skills rather than slabbing.

regards,

John

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

This is a copy of a post I made in another forum last year with some addtional edits..... It is apropos of this thread.....

I am an USA collector of some US coinage and of GB copper and bronze. While I agree that many (most) US collectors are much too caught up in the HIGH NUMERICAL grades (in search of perfection), and paying exhorbitant prices for otherwise common coins, there are some good points about slabbing.

I have many low grade RARE coins, that I sent away to be certified by one of the REPUTABLE slabbing services, only because I wanted to use them as a means to protect my investment. Primarily by certifying that the coins in question were GENUINE and not ALTERED or COUNTERFEIT. Most of the scarce and rare dates of USA coins have been counterfeited because of the extreme prices that they are bringing. And, no matter how trained the collector, or how sophisticated he or his equipment may be, the fakes are capable of fooling even the best. The reputable (IMPORTANT) 3rd party services have the best equipment and are trained to catch these spurious specimens (a few do not). Although not perfect, it is still as near to it as you can get, especially when the reputable companies back their services with a guarantee. This is one GOOD reason to use them in some instances, although I too, like the feel of the coin itself. Unfortunately, in this day and age, it is a compromise that must be made.

To address the issue of errors in attribution, I whole heartedly agree. I have received MANY British Bronze coins that were mis-attributed from ALL the major services. The most common error being the "HONI SO" on Victoria's shoulder being confused with the designers signature. In conversations that I have had with PCGS, NGC, ANACS, PCI, and ICG at different times regarding the mis-attributions, the most common answer I received was "we could not positively confirm the variety". Off the record, they admitted that they did not have enough specialists in British coinage to do the job, and that some of the references that we "collector specialists" used, were NOT "recognized reference books". As comprehensive as Freeman is, there have been new discoveries NOT included within his book. Gouby and Satin, although accepted as Bibles within the community, are not accepted by the 3rd party experts even when documentation was forwarded along with the coins, whereas Freeman and Peck are.

Quite possibly, if a 3rd party service were to set up a business in the UK, with the intention of focusing primarily in the coins of GB, then there would most likely be less of a problem with mis-attributions and a wider acceptance of slabbed coinage, at least in certain circumstances. However, when a NON-US coin, especially with an esoteric attribution, is sent to a 3rd party service that specializes in US coinage (as most of their business is generated that way), one should not be too surprised at the level of dissatisfaction involved.

Thanks for letting me get this said.....

[Geordie582 18]

THanks for that, Bronze and Copper Collector, but I'll still maintain that, unless you are 'investing' i8n coins, the normal numismatist needs to be able to handle and ispect CLOSELY any coin he buys. I don't think slabbing will catch on in UK, except, as I say, for investors. Milled collectors may disagree of course!

[TomGoodheart 373]

Hi,

Many thanks for your helpful comments and advice.

After reading them I am now of the view that I should indeed perhaps look to

a better camera and improving my grading skills rather than slabbing.

I think that's a better idea John. You may want to take a look at the Market Trends section to the intro of Spink Coins of England 2006 which mentions this very thing. In summary the 'Cheshire' collection was entirely slabbed and regraded 'a la Americaine' before sale.

The results were mixed, with high grade gold selling strongly but over 25% by value (particularly milled copper) remaining unsold. The item goes on to say that the problem lay with the mismatch between US and UK grading, particularly the inability of a numeric system to deal with production flaws such as double-striking, weak strike, ghosting etc.

In some cases slabbed grade was taken at face value. In most cases however, the purchasers were sophisicated enough to take the true grade into account. Items which were unrealistically estimated were left unsold.

While I can't commit him, I think everyone here would agree that Chris works very hard on his grading. Possibly if you got stuck on a particular coin he might be prepared to say if he thought your grading was way out or not (if you ask very nicely!)

[Bronze & Copper Collector 401]

Agreed,

It's vital that a collector learns how to properly grade..... To examine the coin and not accept some third party's decision....

I have seen many instances where a lower graded ccoin was more attractive that a coin that was certified at a higher grade.... Eye Appeal is important too.....

My point was in the detection of counterfeits and altered coins...... A problem that proliferates here in the US.... I don't think that there are too many instances of phony rare dates around in GB coinage except for maybe the 1905 half crown and coins of that ilk.... Using the 1905 as an example, specifically, thre was a recent post regarding a specimen in one of the forums here as to whether it was genuine or not....That is one instance where a third party service can be of some use.... A collector may be able to GRADE the coin properly, but NOT have the equipment to detect a counterfeit.....

The bottom line is, a collector should KNOW his/her coins (or whatever), and use EVERY TOOL at their disposal to make determintions regarding their collections. And a third party service should be considered just that, another tool, to be used if and when necessary, as an supplementary aid to the knowledge that they already have..... (again, the caveat would apply, that the US grading services know more about US coins thann GB coins, especially regarding varieties.... HOWEVER, an counterfeit and/or altered coin is still just that, and they have the tools to make a final determination....)

I'll sum up by saying that I still prefer to place the coins in an album (there is nothing quite like viewing an album and seeing that all the holes are filled..... There is a sense off accomplishment about that that is very satisfying), BUT, with the higher prices that US coins command, it becomes necessary to use every tool available to help detect and combat the invasion of counterfeits that exist. The GB collector has fortunately NOT been exposed to that seedier side of numismatics yet, but an informed collector is a smart collector.....

Thanks....

Another purpose that slabbing can serve, is to provide a safe INERT environment to store your coins ... This is really only applicable to EXTREMELY HIGH GRADE specimens that are highly subject to the environment......

[Rob 2,998]

Agreed,

I don't think that there are too many instances of phony rare dates around in GB coinage except for maybe the 1905 half crown and coins of that ilk.... Using the 1905 as an example, specifically, thre was a recent post regarding a specimen in one of the forums here as to whether it was genuine or not....That is one instance where a third party service can be of some use.... A collector may be able to GRADE the coin properly, but NOT have the equipment to detect a counterfeit.....

I don't know if there are different varieties of counterfeit 1905 half crowns, but if there are, one of them is a thicker flan than normal