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Chris Perkins

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Let me know about any ideas you have for new forums!

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Guest brownowl

how about a forum devoted specifically to grading? I'm probably not the only one who could use some education and helpful hints!

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Yes, no problem. A special Grading Forum will be created in your honour!

Chris

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Guest Eliza

Chris --

How about a *book review* or bibliography item somewhere?

Devoted to coins/numismatics, of course. Right now I'm doing a lot of research into the economic environment of Tudor/Stuart/Great Recoinage eras. I have the resources of a leading US university at hand, but I'd be interested in what others are reading & finding helpful.

I find that books on economic history are almost as illuminating as those on coins specifically. (I think Sylvester was looking for mintage figures? I may yet find them.)

--Eliza

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Yes that's a good idea.

Email me a book review to start if you like and i'll post it in a new forum.

Anyone else that cares to provide a title and a review please email me and we'll get something started. I do have a review on the site for the Collectors Coins GB 2004 book here:

http://www.predecimal.com/books/collectors_coins_review.htm

I agree, economic history is facinating, and tied in very much with coinage and it's continued debasement over the years. Even in Roman times the bronze coins got smaller and smaller and the silver coins became silver washed bronze.

Chris

www.predecimal.com

email: cp@predecimal.com

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(I think Sylvester was looking for mintage figures? I may yet find them.)

--Eliza

Any info on mintage figures of sixpences, pre 1816 is most welcome! (And half guineas).

Thanks in advance

Sylvester.

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I think they're in my Collectors George III Coins book back to 1760. I'll have a look.

Chris

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Guest Eliza

Well ... currently I'm slogging through "The Great ReCoinage of 1696 to 1699," by Ming-Hsun Li (1963 imprint). It's a scholarly, rather than a popular, work, and pretty tough going for someone for whom math was not a favourite subject! But there are teasing bits directly related to coins throughout. General summary: It's 1690. If you're a hammered coin, you're clipped; and if you're milled, you're hidden in a crock under the threshold or on your way to be melted down into bullion.

"Mintage" statistics are, alas, more in weights of bullion than broken down by denomination. But I'm not all the way through the book yet. There may be more information for gold coins. I'm on the hunt, Sylvester!

Chris, I'll write something up when I'm finished and we'll see if it merits posting.

Eliza

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This is what i feared Eliza about the mintage figures, i have some for gold coins, i actually have mintage figures for the elephant and castle guineas. But regarding the other gold coins of the period all of the mintages of gold (i have none of silver) say things like for 1760 £111,229 was minted in gold coinage, including guineas and half guineas, and that's about it. Later dates are even more confusing because guineas, half guineas and third guineas were being minted simultaneously, 1797 for example.

Syl.

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And I bet some of those were remelted, either officially or not.

Chris

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Guest Eliza

Sylvester,

We're going to converse ourselves into yet another new topic! :)

I'm a long way from being done with my research. I want both to understand the history of early milled coins in E/GB *and* to write a bibliographic article for my local numis. club. It was just this week that I, DUH!!, discovered that *economic history* had perhaps even more information than numismatics, in my local University library. Our library also has Spink circulars going back to the 50s, and a complete run (I think) of BNS Annuals. Plus other resources. WHO KNOWS what's there. I have a book checked out on the history of the Mint and the B. of England. You never know where your mintage figures might be hidden. Or, YOU make a name for yourself by compiling them for the first time!

That's why bibliographic work in research is so important.

(PS to Chris: the library is postively LOUSY with Classical & Roman coin reference material.)

Eliza

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Guest Eliza

Chris, yes: whenever the bullion value by raw weight outpriced the denomination value, coins vanished.

It's a wonder any survived to the present day.

Eliza

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Yes that's why they're rare and the nice examples are rarer. The same thing happened in America in the early days of your Philedelphia mint I read yesterday. Both with silver and gold coins.

Chris

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And I bet some of those were remelted, either officially or not.

Chris

Many were made out of nearly 20 million melted down worn William III and Queen Anne guineas/halves.

It's fairly safe to say that most of those that were consequently minted were officially melted down to make later issues (and sovereigns after the great recoinage), and many were melted down unofficailly due to the coin shortages and rising gold/silver prices from the 1750s onwards.

And an interesting fact for Eliza is that during the early period of George III, many of the coins circulating were actually either tokens or 'forgeries' when i say forgeries i actually mean foreign coins of similar size to the English denominations that were sanded/worn smooth and passed off as sixpences/shillings etc. If you look at the silver coin mintages after 1758 there are very very few, mostly 1787, and 1763? in the shillings. 1798 shillings never really circulated as they were illegal Dorrien Magens who kindly supplied the silver probably got into trouble for minting them anyhow.

This lack of coinage mean't that the earlier stuff had to still circulate and was worn smooth, so that's why people 'forged' the foreign coins by sanding them smooth.

The mint tried to solve the problems of high denomination silver coins during this period by minting smaller gold coins, because gold was in better supply, hence why guineas and half guineas were minted most years of Geo III's reign.

Syl.

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Chris, yes: whenever the bullion value by raw weight outpriced the denomination value, coins vanished.

It's a wonder any survived to the present day.

Eliza

Yeah, but the question is where did they vanish to?

With regards to most of the 1787 issue of Sixpences and Shillings, most of them entered circulation and promply vanished, reason is they were (in the case of the sixpence, not the shilling) the first silver coins with George III on them, and thus people hoarded them as a curiosity, but also they were new and good quality high grade stuff. (Alright anything not worn smooth) was very scarce indeed hence they all ended up in people's drawers, and attics.

I think the American equivalent would be the 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar, loads of them minted, but how often do you see them? (or any half dollar for that matter).

Most people have a few hidden away, firstly because it was a new issue, secondly because it was in memory of the recent Kennedy assasination and thus in many people's eyes a good peice of history to pass onto the grandchildren, and thirdly they were issued in the last year of 90% silver coins (actually not entirely correct...silver coins were minted till 1966 but all were dated 1964 to fool people into thinking that no-one was hoarding the silver and also to use up the mint's supply.)

Thus History often repeats itself...So that's why many of the silver coins dated from 1750s onwards are to be found in higher conditions than the earlier dates. And also why Kennedy halves are so plentiful in higher grades.

Syl.

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And it's why Churchill Crowns are so plentiful in higher grades ;) as we skimmed over before.

Chris

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Guest anna
Let me know about any ideas you have for new forums!

Hi Chris

I don't know if I'm using properly this forum.. I need information to buy some pennies, can you help me? I sent already a mail to the site but I'm a bit disorientated...

how do I have to ask for buying 300 hundreds pre-decimal pennies?

thank you

anna

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Dear Anna,

Yes I agree, the site and forum are becoming larger and perhaps need a little re organisation when i get a mo.

I have however replied to your email.

Chris

www.predecimal.com

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Guest King Dong

What about having less 'sub-forums' and have two to four of them , rather than jumping from one to the other (some sub-forums have no threads in whatever)

More so, what about a free coin with every post??

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Point taken, it has got big and complicated since it started off. I'll work on making things a little more compact and organised today.

How about you give me a coin when I sort it out?

Chris

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