numismatics for the complete novice...

[Guest brownowl]

Well, first off, to call myself a "beginner collector" feels like putting on airs! The truth of the matter is, I am simply a person who has an old Bisto can full of coins and notes from all over the world. Examining the various patterns, languages and images on the coins is like travelling the world, and holding a handful of history. And I find the weight of a coin in the hand to be somehow pleasant. My husband and I feel that the opportunity to inspect the currencies of the world is quite educational for our children. As long as they don't put the coins into their mouths, they are welcome to pour them out and look through them. Our younger children like to drop the coins back into the tin through the slot in the lid, and our older children love using real money when they play "shop". Weeeeell, to cut to the chase, I've noticed that one of the coins in our "collection" is from 1868. And one small black one is a very odd shape and has Hebrew writing on it, but no date that I recognize. I've decided it's time for me to inspect our collection a bit more closely, and a Google search has brought me to this excellent, informative, well-organised site. And now, for the Dumb Question: why are some coins considered valuable? (Well, I mean, of course coins are valuable -- they're money, aren't they? That's the whole point of money. But I mean, why are some coins considered more special or interesting to collectors?) I've noticed that age doesn't necessarily enter into it. Thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom with my poor ignorant soul.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Why are some coins considered valuable?......

Why is Gold valuable?....

Simple...Demand.

There is no real logical explantion. Gold is pretty and makes nice jewellery, but so does silver, or even stainless steel, so why is gold so expensive? Perhaps because since time began people have always been obsessed with gold.

If the demand for a coin is high, the value will be high. Coin demand is usually created by a mixture of condition, rarity and 'wantability' (or obsession!). If the coin is pig ugly and comes from the Kingdom of Bhutan, (although they make very wonderful coins there) a country that no one has heard of, even if only 1000 were made, chances are demand will be low and the 1000 coins will be worth relatively little.

If the coin is a 1934 British Wreath Crown the demand will be very high! Around 1000 were made, but it's a beautiful large coin, part of an important series and from a very imporant coin issuing country (I like to think so, i'm sure you all agree!). Lots of British coin collectors have lots of spare money to spend on coins, so the people that want it exist, therefore a demand exists and therefore that coin is valuable.

I wrote a little about this subject in the 'what makes a coin valuable' section of www.coinvaluation.com

Chris Perkins

www.predecimal.com

[Sylvester 15]

Another comment i feel i really must add...

I'm glad that you picked up on the age doesn't = price issue, although many non collectors often believe that the older the coin is the more valuable it is, this is simply not the case, a good example of this is a Roman coin from centuries ago can sell for a few pounds, whereas a 1953 sovereign for example sells for thousands of pounds, the short answer is supply and demand, as mentioned in the previous post.

Another thing, and the thing i wanted to add is the grade of the coin determines the price, this is why there is soooo much emphasis on learning how to grade properly, the better preserved the coin is the more money it will sell for.

And of course the number one rule, (this is almost like one of those rules from physics E=MC2 for instance), well in coin collecting the main rule is...

*When you clean a coin, not only do you remove the dirt and history of the coin but also the value.

Cleaning a coin is the equivalent of folding up a crisp white fiver, you add creases on a note thus devaluing it, well cleaning adds scratches on a coin devaluing it.

Many beginners equate clean shiny bright coins to be worth more than 'dirty' or toned coins. What surprises most novices is that attractively toned coins often sell for a slight premium!

Sylvester.

[william 0]

What surprises most novices is that attractively toned coins often sell for a slight premium!

How i love a nice darkish tone!

[Guest Guest]

Can someone answer this please:

say i have (example)2 1797 'cartwheel' twopences, thay are both in the same condition, but one of them is UNC and the other is EF...which one would be more valuble?

[Sylvester 15]

Can someone answer this please:

say i have (example)2 1797 'cartwheel' twopences, thay are both in the same condition, but one of them is UNC and the other is EF...which one would be more valuble?

Well by definition they couldn't be in the same condition, as UNC and EF are two different conditions/grades.

Both very good grades, EF being one below UNC, but the fact is the UNC would sell for more, cos it's the better grade.

[william 0]

Can someone answer this please:

say i have (example)2 1797 'cartwheel' twopences, thay are both in the same condition, but one of them is UNC and the other is EF...which one would be more valuble?

What do you mean when you say they are both in the same condition? The grade is the condition!!

[Emperor Oli 0]

Perhaps he/she means they look alike?! Sounds like a novice to me - this is the place!

[Guest Master J.M.D]

in regards to my question i put above...

correct me if i am wrong, but a Unc. coin is a coin that has never been in circulation. and a EF. coin is a coin that has been in circulation, but recieved little damage...

so:

say i have (example)2 1797 'cartwheel' twopences, thay are both in the same condition, but one of them is UNC and the other is EF...which one would be more valuble?

i only used a cartwheel penny as an example...so you could instead maybe have a 1967 penny. But can someone answer my question please?

[PAUL.J 0]

Well, Unc is uncirculated and does mean just that!! EF has been in circulation and received minimal wear to the highest points of the design. Unc is the higher grade and would be more valuable.

[Master Jmd 50]

Well, Unc is uncirculated and does mean just that!! EF has been in circulation and received minimal wear to the highest points of the design. Unc is the higher grade and would be more valuable.

why is this?

stamps and postcards are more valuable when thay have been posted. why is this different with coins?

[william 0]

An UNC coin is a coin which has never been into circulation. An EF coin is one which has been into circulation, and shows some(but very little) wear. The UNC one would be worth more, as it has never seen any wear. For a coin to be EF, it has to show some wear!

[Chris Perkins 223]

why is this?

stamps and postcards are more valuable when thay have been posted. why is this different with coins?

It's a good question, and of course all coins should be enjoyed (dare I say, even Churchill crowns, '67 pennies and even 1971 1p's eventually!). Some collectors actually prefer EF coins because they have seem limited circulation, almost like they have more of a story to tell.

But with UNC coins, each one (especially the older ones), is in way, a small miracle. For throughout it's whole life people have been able to resist the huge temptation of spending it.

But the reason UNC coins are always worth more is simply because they are rarer than EF coins, and there is therfore less supply to meet the demand.

Perhaps with stamps, the UNC ones are more common? That would be the reason they are cheaper than used ones. I know nothing about stamps, and they do not appeal to me.

[william 0]

Yeah, I hate stamps! I suppose that's the case, Chris, but I'm not entirely sure either. I guess the ones which have been used are more interesting because of the stamp on them, but that is just a guess.

[Chris Perkins 223]

Yes, i suppose being franked adds an actual date and place to the stamp, making it historically more interesting.

[william 0]

Ok, that post didn't really make sense. I tried to edit it, but I 'didn't have permission to edit', don't know why. I said used stamps were probably more interesting because of the stamp on them, but that just sounds silly. I mean the markings(is that the word I am looking for?!) on them

[william 0]

Yes,franked! That's the word I meant. Thanks Chris

[Chris Perkins 223]

Aha, yes you see, there is a time limit that the post remains editable for! In order to prevent people completely changing what they said at a later date.

So, you have the right to remain silent, but anything you do say may be taken down and used as evidence against you ;-) So you have to stand by your opinions always, because once you made it, you can't take it back yourself!!

[kuhli 0]

in regards to my question i put above...

correct me if i am wrong, but a Unc. coin is a coin that has never been in circulation. and a EF. coin is a coin that has been in circulation, but recieved little damage...

UNC and EF refer to the "condition" (grade) of the coin. An UNC coin shows no signs of circulation (AKA wear). EF will have signs of circulation (wear) on the high spots. It is possible, and quite common, to get coins directly from mint bags that have bag marks (nicks in the coins from contact with other coins in the bags), and rub spots (wear on the high spots), thus making the coin EF before it ever reaches circulation.

[Master Jmd 50]

yes but (sorry to keep going on and on) i have two 2pence coins that are basicly twins, but i know that one of them has been in circulation because i got it a the bus home from school...so if it was grade then i could just say that both of them are uncirculated then?

[Chris Perkins 223]

Yes, sometimes, confusingly, even Uncirculated coins have seen very limited circulation (ie from the bank to the bus company, to you).

As long as it has minimal contact marks and no wear whatsoever, then you may label it UNC, as far as i'm concerned.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Yeah, I hate stamps!

...but much nicer than just a plain old frank from a franking machine, wouldn't you agree?

[william 0]

That's true!

[Geoff T 3]

An UNC coin is a coin which has never been into circulation.

...although it goes without saying that a coin may never have seen real circulation because it was designed essentially as a commemorative - the George V wreath crowns for example - but any damage to it would compromise its claim to be UNC.

[mint_mark 3]

...although it goes without saying that a coin may never have seen real circulation because it was designed essentially as a commemorative - the George V wreath crowns for example - but any damage to it would compromise its claim to be UNC.

This is where the confusion can creep in... Does unc mean never circulated? The coin has never been spent... Does unc mean no wear? All the detail is present and there is no flattening. Does unc mean perfect? The coin has no disfiguring marks at all.

When I started I thought unc meant perfect. Then I found unc coins with bagmarks, toning, "cabinet friction" and, most disappointing for me, weak strikes and metal flaws.

Now I believe the grade represents wear and you have to be aware of and look out for all the other features that may detract from or add to the appearance of a coin, all in your own opinion of course.