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Reverse of an early counter prob by Lauer

IMG_20230314_0004.jpg

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57 minutes ago, copper123 said:

IMG_20230314_0005.jpg

I have never been sure as to the purpose of these spiel markes  were they part of some kind of collecting or a game?  perhaps the pokamon of the 19th C   a very swiss chocolate looking cow ...nice 

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I have around 35 different pieces all different some of the reverses feature various animals and or other subjects - I strongly suspect they were for various board games like "monopoly" but we never will be sure unless someone comes across a full box , highly unlikely as they weere relatively expensive in early victorian times.

The other posibility is they were used as card counters

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15 hours ago, copper123 said:

I have around 35 different pieces all different some of the reverses feature various animals and or other subjects - I strongly suspect they were for various board games like "monopoly" but we never will be sure unless someone comes across a full box , highly unlikely as they weere relatively expensive in early victorian times.

The other posibility is they were used as card counters

yes I think the card counter idea the most likely I know that Gunther has a section I will take a look 

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1. Game money for board, dice and card games, with stakes and winnings.
Coins were included with complex board games. In 1850, for example, the board game was
"King of China" already provided with punched brass coins. For second quality games
cardboard coins were used, and the players were left with the cheap games
left to make up the gains or the losses with peas, buttons or nuts.

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The company L. Chr. Lauer from Nuremberg
Already in 1430 the guild of the Rechenpfennig-beaters, later also affectionate
Brass scraper or called Dantesmacher, mentioned in the Nuremberg Chronicle. Here is
to look for the roots of the "Lauer" company. It is mentioned by name in 1730
Association with the production of "kitsch objects and inexpensive metal objects".
In 1790 Ernst Ludwig Sigmund Lauer 1762 -1845 founded one
Penny Brawl Workshop. This company was managed by Johann Jakob Lauer from 1790 to 1865
further and in 1847 his son L. Christoph Lauer took over the factory from 1817 to 1873. Circa1850
Ludwig Christian Lauer already had a supremacy in Germany and that in the
Time when the "German Guild of Toy Manufacturers" in Europe created the e

 

I have taken a look and all the other companies listed do not really seem to start until at earliest 1850.  Lauer stretches back a long way.  That is not to say that these numerous spiel markes could not date later than 1850 ( Balmberger) many I have are stamped with Lauers name.  Not that I have a lot of them 

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IMG_20230405_0001.jpg

Edited by copper123
The horse one is a very nice example
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14 hours ago, copper123 said:

IMG_20230405_0001.jpg

yes the horse foreshortened is nicely done 

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A new lead and access to the book on German toy coins with additions by Thomas Engelen is now available on the free portal at Newman Numismatics portal 

message from him yesterday

I have therefor updated both these two works but also added new finds, plus expanded their scope. They have been posted on-line for free consultation and download at the Newman Numismatic Portal, Washington University, St. Louis, USA. On these two :

 

Cardboard coins of Great Britain 1847 – 1980, including those for the commonwealth countries. An expansion of the David Evans work (Galata ), with many additional coins but also some new series (a near complete 1897 Diamond jubilee series for instance), and now including the toy / post office / play boxes of which these cardboard coins were part of. Includes a guide to rarity and pricing, however subjective that may be. As a “teaser” the cardboard Gothic Crown 1847 on its cover,

 

Deutsches Kinderspielgeld, an update and expansion of the work by Günter Aschoff but with 15 new series &  it now also lists the toy banknotes, additional toy boxes, plus the details of coin s by Lauer, Balmberger, Mayer struck for 20 countries. The catalogue is in German, the part on 20 “export” countries in English.

 

Edited by DrLarry

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On 4/5/2023 at 10:57 AM, DrLarry said:

1. Game money for board, dice and card games, with stakes and winnings.
Coins were included with complex board games. In 1850, for example, the board game was
"King of China" already provided with punched brass coins. For second quality games
cardboard coins were used, and the players were left with the cheap games
left to make up the gains or the losses with peas, buttons or nuts.

Think I would prefer the coins , LOL.

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4 hours ago, copper123 said:

Think I would prefer the coins , LOL.

yeah true but I suppose you can eat the beans ..peas or nuts 

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I am happy to say that we may soon be getting a lot more discussion going as Thomas Engelen will hopefully be joining in on some of the thread.  He has just published the update of Gunter Aschoff's work and also a wonderfully helpful new publication available on Cardboard coins.  He like Gunter believes the circular box with the skyline of Nuremberg content is not original.  He has found several other designs for the boxes other than the 4 I mentioned , Gunter already has shown in his work how varied the boxes are.  So things are looking up I know David Caves (cardboard coin collector) has also tried to register on the forum but there may be an issue with his email.  In time I am sure new things will come up and or we can compare observations and I am happy there will be more of us.  

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I should continue on with the young head Lauer coins of Queen Victoria in the mean time .  

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On 3/13/2023 at 9:48 PM, DrLarry said:

Lauer Young Victoria Heads   SET A 

CM230304-152623001 (340x321).jpgCM230304-152711002 (224x340).jpg

I think I got to the silver 

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Rogers only describes  one type of young head shilling #415  and certainly within the four I have I can see absolute similarity in the lettering and the design elements.  Flaws such as on the R's on the Obverse match All are iron coated silver and they are pretty common.   I am unsure of the following statement:  I have a fifth that seems thicker than the rest the edge stands slightly sharper than even the uncirculated ones I have from the set this could of course be nothing more than slight variation in the metal from which it is pressed although this one appears not to have the "blockage or break" to the R's. it does weigh 0.05 gram heavier and i'd say 0.2 mm thicker 

If we assume these early "young Heads" are the first of the Lauer series, whilst they are not uncommon, perhaps we can think that a new product presented to the market might well have been made in smaller numbers than subsequent issues in the 1880's.  Discuss. 

CM230409-105218001 (340x337).jpgCM230409-105241002 (333x340).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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the damage to the R on the normal and the R on the thicker one 

CM230409-105305003 (169x340).jpgCM230409-105345004 (169x340).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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It is possible there is some minor variation in the thickness of the lettering on the reverse however sometimes these things look different if the coating is complete .  this is the example which is much thicker but could just as easily be explained away by variation  in the sheet from which they are pressed  

CM230409-105355005 (333x340).jpgCM230409-105412006 (338x340).jpg

CM230409-105739007 (340x170).jpgCM230409-110157008 (340x273).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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letter variations? to me the negative space between the letters differs looking at the H and the I and the width of the S 

CM230409-110455012 (340x297).jpgCM230409-110545014 (340x301).jpgCM230409-110607015 (340x301).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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Ijust wanted to take a quick look back to the florin and see if there is a variation I am looking at the number of pearls in the crown I thought at first they are different but just as likely down to slight blockages 

 

CM230409-122008016 (145x340).jpgCM230409-122031017 (151x340).jpgCM230409-122055018 (150x340).jpg

Edited by DrLarry

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Davies does not list any different numbers of pearls, just the position of the top cross. Probably blockages like you said.

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3 hours ago, Iannich48 said:

Davies does not list any different numbers of pearls, just the position of the top cross. Probably blockages like you said.

Thank you, yes I think that is all it is 

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Does anyone know what the metal  is coating the "Silver" coins that Lauer produced my best bet is aluminium but I dont know if anyone has looked into it - I am pretty sure its not a thin coat of silver .

Rogers book would probably tell me but I don't have a copy....

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I have only had a very brief glimpse at Rogers and so far cannot see much reference to materials .  I will ask Gunter and Thomas they may have looked into it .  It is an interesting question 

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2 hours ago, copper123 said:

Does anyone know what the metal  is coating the "Silver" coins that Lauer produced my best bet is aluminium but I dont know if anyone has looked into it - I am pretty sure its not a thin coat of silver .

Rogers book would probably tell me but I don't have a copy....

 

5 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

I have only had a very brief glimpse at Rogers and so far cannot see much reference to materials .  I will ask Gunter and Thomas they may have looked into it .  It is an interesting question 

Depends on when they were made. Prior to 1883, aluminium was not commercially available and effectively a precious metal given the cost of extraction and refining. I'd say nickel or tin were more likely in this instance. Tin plating is surely the cheapest method.

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