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VickySilver

Sovereign Rarities Sale, Thoughts?

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I watched most of this and was a bit surprised by some of the price fetched in the later penny series for what I would call "grading prices" (ie, slabbed grades high with cameo, etc.) and also the value estimates given to later 20th C. crown proofs, varieties etc. They appeared IMHO unrealistic and as far as the crowns appear that a number did not sell.

I did get the 1965 OMS brass (Jamaican penny flans?) as I have a pet collection of 1960s OMS strikes...

 

Thoughts, anyone?

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Bought one lot for stock, but nothing for the collection. I wanted one of 3 Wiener shillings, but I'm not paying £7-15K for one. £3K maybe for a nice one. Equally, not paying £3K for the pattern decimal penny.

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A nice but not rare 1860 F10 with a large die crack went for £580-80. I don't understand it.

It looks as though I should get my entire collection slabbed before I sell it.

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50 minutes ago, Rob said:

Bought one lot for stock, but nothing for the collection. I wanted one of 3 Wiener shillings, but I'm not paying £7-15K for one. £3K maybe for a nice one. Equally, not paying £3K for the pattern decimal penny.

No prizes for guessing which 1887 penny I got driven up to buy. But at least I know its pedigree right back to Murdock and it is after all unique.

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7 minutes ago, 1887jubilee said:

No prizes for guessing which 1887 penny I got driven up to buy. But at least I know its pedigree right back to Murdock and it is after all unique.

Not guilty

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YEs, was shocked at the Wiener prices and knowing they are not Royal Mint products - I wish they would announce that prior to each Wiener lot. I love Vicky silver (surprise) but NOT these...

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10 hours ago, 1887jubilee said:

No prizes for guessing which 1887 penny I got driven up to buy. But at least I know its pedigree right back to Murdock and it is after all unique.

What 1887 penny was it? I had a look on their site and could only see a June auction.

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4 hours ago, Mr T said:

What 1887 penny was it? I had a look on their site and could only see a June auction.

The Weyl pattern, lot 249

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Interesting sale, some fantastic coins there. I was interested in what was one of the most detailed long hair ChII farthing patterns, though with some obverse digs (lot 110). But as often happens I found the one person in the world who wanted it more than me!

Those two ChII pattern shillings/farthings went astronomical. I might have had a flutter at 2-3K for the portrait one but 14K, that is a lot. Still, it's probably one of only two known, it's almost certainly the ESC plate coin in my edition, and the only other one known is the ropey and porous one in the BM (Illustrated in Peck). It probably doesn't belong to the copper series, but what a coin.

People often misacribe the more common "date between crowns" variety as ESC 1067A, when that is specifically the "date either side" variety. Because they can then call it "R6 in ESC" probably! Mark Rasmussen had probably the nicest one of those on the market in his copper collection of Lists 14-17 at £1500 - not lustrous but good detail. I'm surprised the variety is not in ESC, as it is an almost identical design to 1067A.

One surprise in the sale - the Churchill crown at MS66 - really? It fetched £320 but you can see obtrusive digs at the bottom of Churchill, and it looks dirty. I thought mine's better than that - value less than £5. Perhaps Richard's right about this slabbing business......

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Unfortunately, slab seems the trend at auctions nowadays, though most of us don't like it...😓

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I thought the same thing about the Churchill - a "66" ought to be a superior coin, and although better than most agree this one not better than a couple of the MS65 coins I have seen. There were a couple of other questionably graded coins IMHO.

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2 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I thought the same thing about the Churchill - a "66" ought to be a superior coin, and although better than most agree this one not better than a couple of the MS65 coins I have seen. There were a couple of other questionably graded coins IMHO.

The copper Wiener was a case of this. Slabbed 66 despite a rim nick and a couple spots. My copper example is as struck and vastly superior to that.

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Apparently the slabbers have only got 20 seconds to grade a coin these days, which is bound to lead to some flaws getting missed. As one coin man at a London auction house said, there's no way they can properly grade a coin in that timeframe. 

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1 hour ago, oldcopper said:

Apparently the slabbers have only got 20 seconds to grade a coin these days, which is bound to lead to some flaws getting missed. As one coin man at a London auction house said, there's no way they can properly grade a coin in that timeframe. 

That's ridiculous. 

Presumably this is to do with the volume of stuff they're getting in to be graded and slabbed.

Reduces confidence in their findings.

 

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55 minutes ago, Iannich48 said:

They may as well spin a roulette reel, that is outrageous.

They already do - it comes up R or B and lands on an arbitrary number.

Pf. Who would have thought it?

Edited by Rob
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27 minutes ago, Rob said:

They already do - it comes up R or B and lands on an arbitrary number.

Pf. Who would have thought it?

What happens if it lands on the green zero?😁

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1 hour ago, Iannich48 said:

What happens if it lands on the green zero?😁

Probably gets rejected

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The thing is, we have now all seen here and elsewhere (can you say "Heritage"?) where the TPG grade becomes all important, adding multiples and zeroes to the price fetched. In my series (late pre-decimal silver and to some extent copper) I have seen many cases with grades assigned, both high and low. Some are spot on, but the ones to either side of the curve are concerning.  The other thing is that although I am not completely upset with them, I have really come to wonder if the submitter, despite all of their protests, can influence grades to some extent - at least on occasion.

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5 hours ago, VickySilver said:

The thing is, we have now all seen here and elsewhere (can you say "Heritage"?) where the TPG grade becomes all important, adding multiples and zeroes to the price fetched. In my series (late pre-decimal silver and to some extent copper) I have seen many cases with grades assigned, both high and low. Some are spot on, but the ones to either side of the curve are concerning.  The other thing is that although I am not completely upset with them, I have really come to wonder if the submitter, despite all of their protests, can influence grades to some extent - at least on occasion.

I know an instance of Heritage influencing a grade, they had contacted a guy I know about a George IIII proof half sovereign he had, it was graded cameo and he said that it should have been an ultra cameo on the label, they said they would send to NGC and low and behold it came back Ultra cameo and was put through their auction and hammered for $24k

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Another lovely NGC grade, ms64

Screenshot 2022-09-23 at 09.33.25.png

Edited by azda

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Made an arse of the above post, this is the image

Edited by azda

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Thanks for that maestro. I strongly suspect such and only wished that when it came time to sell that I "knew somebody"...

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23 hours ago, Iannich48 said:

What happens if it lands on the green zero?😁

 

22 hours ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

Probably gets rejected

Verdigris - environmental damage, no grade assigned

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