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1949threepence

Temperatures somewhat above the seasonal norm......

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I note that the psychologically important 40 degrees barrier (exactly 104 F in old money) has now been breached at both Heathrow and at Coningsby in Lincolnshire. Last night it didn't fall below 25.9 (78.6 F) at at least one location. So both maximum and minimum UK temperature records broken. As Summer daytime maximums are typically attained at around 4pm, there is still room for maybe a 41 somewhere.

Everybody coping OK I hope. I mean, sure, it is hot, but given the hype bordering on hysteria, actually not as bad as feared. I've been using a hot water bottle stored in the freezer for a few hours, and resting my wrists on them. A doctor on GB News yesterday, suggested this was a good idea as it cools the circulating blood, and indeed it has been quite effective. 

I do appreciate many people will become ill, and maybe some die. But surely that's the same with any heatwave. A prolonged heatwave over several weeks, even if not quite as hot as today, would probably be more damaging than the short very intense one we've got now.

 

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The sooner the UK gets to net zero, the sooner the worldwide problem will be fixed and we'll all get back to normal.😎

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Look on the positive side, if this carries on our heating bills will be much lower……..

Jerry

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33 minutes ago, jelida said:

Look on the positive side, if this carries on our heating bills will be much lower……..

Jerry

Doubt if mine will be, unfortunately we have this thing called winter

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2 hours ago, copper123 said:

Doubt if mine will be, unfortunately we have this thing called winter

Ah, but global warming affects the winter too! But you just can’t predict which way we will be affected- if the Gulf Stream changes course we could actually be colder.  I think we have to be resigned to climate change whatever,  and our kids more so. What the planet needs is a good plague, when in fact we all seem to want to live forever.

Jerry

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3 hours ago, jelida said:

Look on the positive side, if this carries on our heating bills will be much lower……..

Jerry

Interesting that in this heat, even if you have the boiler on for just 15 minutes, the water is still hot 12 hours later. 

Incredibly, even the saucepan I boiled some potatoes in earlier, was still hot 6 hours later. 

Obey your thirst folks. 

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1 hour ago, jelida said:

Ah, but global warming affects the winter too! But you just can’t predict which way we will be affected- if the Gulf Stream changes course we could actually be colder.  I think we have to be resigned to climate change whatever,  and our kids more so. What the planet needs is a good plague, when in fact we all seem to want to live forever.

Jerry

We need to find a way to stop - especially - India and China from emitting so much CO2. Personally I think it would come best from us helping them (in particular India), rather than wagging our fingers and saying "tut tut".

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7 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

We need to find a way to stop - especially - India and China from emitting so much CO2. Personally I think it would come best from us helping them (in particular India), rather than wagging our fingers and saying "tut tut".

Good luck with that one.

 

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I'd love to know why all these temperature readings are taken at busy airports - large amount of hot tarmac, plenty of jet streams providing localised warming. It's almost like they want to get as high a temperature reading as possible. Heathrow and Gatwick (Charlwood). Coningsby is an active RAF base as well. The cynic might wonder if they were deliberately wanting to record as high a temperature as possible. I was reading that higher altitude temperature measuring stations have been closed over the last few decades and most if not all the readings are now obtained in the vicinity of busy airports.

If so, there may be a good reason, but I wonder what it is. Any ideas?

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5 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Good luck with that one.

It's going to need more than luck...

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3 hours ago, oldcopper said:

I'd love to know why all these temperature readings are taken at busy airports - large amount of hot tarmac, plenty of jet streams providing localised warming. It's almost like they want to get as high a temperature reading as possible. Heathrow and Gatwick (Charlwood). Coningsby is an active RAF base as well. The cynic might wonder if they were deliberately wanting to record as high a temperature as possible. I was reading that higher altitude temperature measuring stations have been closed over the last few decades and most if not all the readings are now obtained in the vicinity of busy airports.

If so, there may be a good reason, but I wonder what it is. Any ideas?

That's actually a very very fair question. 

Besides coins, another one of my interests is the weather and the number/location of weather recording stations does seem slightly biased to this observer. 

Many decades ago (and over a century ago in fact), one of the recording stations which time and again came up with top readings, was Raunds in Northamptonshire. There is still a legit weather station there, and it still registers interesting readings (see link), but you NEVER ever hear that name mentioned for readings or records. Raunds is a perfectly reasonable semi rural  South Midlands weather station, typical of many which day in and day out do a great job. But not a single word do you ever hear of them. I mentioned Raunds as it has been famous in the past. But there are others scattered over that area and the Home Counties, such as Rugby, Milton Keynes, High Wycombe, Banbury, Meriden, Buckingham and Oxford - all of which are locations which can reasonably said to represent England as a whole, and are in non biased locations. But again, you never hear mention of them (occasionally Cambridge crops up, such as for the previous record high in 2019)

There are also numerous officially recognised recording stations in the North of England, which again you rarely hear about. Although with that said, we did hear of one on Monday night - Emley Moor, which recorded the highest ever minimum temperature of 25.9. That was surprising given the Northerly location. It's quite high ground as well, and that may have caused a bias. The old ITV tv transmitter at Emley Moor was brought down in March 1969 by a thick coating of rime (layer of ice caused by persistent freezing fog), which caused its weight to increase massively on the side facing East.

But back to your original point, yes, I think there might well be a logical case for excluding airports, especially Heathrow and Gatwick as their readings could well be biased upwards given their urban locations and concrete bases. All weather stations use Stevenson screen thermometers, but what they're sited on, and their proximity to other influences, may well make a difference.

There was bias in the old days as well. Many earlier records were set in Camden Square, London, which was an urban location later considered too biased to be meaningful. Yet they use Heathrow? link to Camden Square info        

Photo of Camden Square as it was when used as a weather station:-

 

 

 

   

       

camden Square.jpg

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51 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

That's actually a very very fair question. 

Besides coins, another one of my interests is the weather and the number/location of weather recording stations does seem slightly biased to this observer. 

Many decades ago (and over a century ago in fact), one of the recording stations which time and again came up with top readings, was Raunds in Northamptonshire. There is still a legit weather station there, and it still registers interesting readings (see link), but you NEVER ever hear that name mentioned for readings or records. Raunds is a perfectly reasonable semi rural  South Midlands weather station, typical of many which day in and day out do a great job. But not a single word do you ever hear of them. I mentioned Raunds as it has been famous in the past. But there are others scattered over that area and the Home Counties, such as Rugby, Milton Keynes, High Wycombe, Banbury, Meriden, Buckingham and Oxford - all of which are locations which can reasonably said to represent England as a whole, and are in non biased locations. But again, you never hear mention of them (occasionally Cambridge crops up, such as for the previous record high in 2019)

There are also numerous officially recognised recording stations in the North of England, which again you rarely hear about. Although with that said, we did hear of one on Monday night - Emley Moor, which recorded the highest ever minimum temperature of 25.9. That was surprising given the Northerly location. It's quite high ground as well, and that may have caused a bias. The old ITV tv transmitter at Emley Moor was brought down in March 1969 by a thick coating of rime (layer of ice caused by persistent freezing fog), which caused its weight to increase massively on the side facing East.

But back to your original point, yes, I think there might well be a logical case for excluding airports, especially Heathrow and Gatwick as their readings could well be biased upwards given their urban locations and concrete bases. All weather stations use Stevenson screen thermometers, but what they're sited on, and their proximity to other influences, may well make a difference.

There was bias in the old days as well. Many earlier records were set in Camden Square, London, which was an urban location later considered too biased to be meaningful. Yet they use Heathrow? link to Camden Square info        

Photo of Camden Square as it was when used as a weather station:-

 

 

 

   

       

camden Square.jpg

Thanks - very interesting! 

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By the way, how times change.....

 

ice age.jpg

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Yes, but that was Scotland. Nicola must have sorted it !

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On 7/22/2022 at 9:20 AM, secret santa said:

Yes, but that was Scotland. Nicola must have sorted it !

Hmm.....well I can guarantee it's something the BBC would sooner forget they ever said. But of course they go back a very, very long way, and must have shown many different faces over the 100 years involved, most of which is long forgotten, apart from the odd unearthed snippet like the above. 

Anyway, back to the heat, which is building again. Looks like 4 days of 35 degrees plus, potentially. But 30 odd degrees today and I've hardly noticed it. Evidence, perhaps, that we soon become acclimatised. 

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TLvNTVTl.jpg.53b91b582d506eb00167797c16e640bb.jpg

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On 7/20/2022 at 1:48 PM, 1949threepence said:

That's actually a very very fair question. 

Besides coins, another one of my interests is the weather and the number/location of weather recording stations does seem slightly biased to this observer. 

Many decades ago (and over a century ago in fact), one of the recording stations which time and again came up with top readings, was Raunds in Northamptonshire. There is still a legit weather station there, and it still registers interesting readings (see link), but you NEVER ever hear that name mentioned for readings or records. Raunds is a perfectly reasonable semi rural  South Midlands weather station, typical of many which day in and day out do a great job. But not a single word do you ever hear of them. I mentioned Raunds as it has been famous in the past. But there are others scattered over that area and the Home Counties, such as Rugby, Milton Keynes, High Wycombe, Banbury, Meriden, Buckingham and Oxford - all of which are locations which can reasonably said to represent England as a whole, and are in non biased locations. But again, you never hear mention of them (occasionally Cambridge crops up, such as for the previous record high in 2019)

There are also numerous officially recognised recording stations in the North of England, which again you rarely hear about. Although with that said, we did hear of one on Monday night - Emley Moor, which recorded the highest ever minimum temperature of 25.9. That was surprising given the Northerly location. It's quite high ground as well, and that may have caused a bias. The old ITV tv transmitter at Emley Moor was brought down in March 1969 by a thick coating of rime (layer of ice caused by persistent freezing fog), which caused its weight to increase massively on the side facing East.

But back to your original point, yes, I think there might well be a logical case for excluding airports, especially Heathrow and Gatwick as their readings could well be biased upwards given their urban locations and concrete bases. All weather stations use Stevenson screen thermometers, but what they're sited on, and their proximity to other influences, may well make a difference.

There was bias in the old days as well. Many earlier records were set in Camden Square, London, which was an urban location later considered too biased to be meaningful. Yet they use Heathrow? link to Camden Square info        

Photo of Camden Square as it was when used as a weather station:-

 

 

 

   

       

camden Square.jpg

I was monitoring my local Weatherunderground stations here in Milton keynes, and they all read 42˚ plus, but where not

listed as the record, so they must be inaccurate, but if they are, then why do they post results?

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On 7/19/2022 at 10:15 PM, jelida said:

Ah, but global warming affects the winter too! But you just can’t predict which way we will be affected- if the Gulf Stream changes course we could actually be colder.  I think we have to be resigned to climate change whatever,  and our kids more so. What the planet needs is a good plague, when in fact we all seem to want to live forever.

Jerry

I think you're right- the gulf stream may well move or stop- compare the climate of the Isle of Lewis to Churchill, Canada.....same latitude.....

that's what we will lose....

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22 minutes ago, blakeyboy said:

I was monitoring my local Weatherunderground stations here in Milton keynes, and they all read 42˚ plus, but where not

listed as the record, so they must be inaccurate, but if they are, then why do they post results?

There are many amateur weather stations, but only a few officially recognised by the Met Office as authentic sources of information. 

Anyway, I thought you lived in Kidderminster...... 

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Ah no- MK- I hail from Kiddy- friends and family still there, and bought somewhere in Worcestershire earlier this year,

so one day hoping to move, after turning a village hall into a house, but the cost of materials is now crazy......

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2 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I think you're right- the gulf stream may well move or stop- compare the climate of the Isle of Lewis to Churchill, Canada.....same latitude.....

that's what we will lose....

The result of the Gulf Stream sinking further South does in fact mean we will lose its protection. However, you can't compare us with Canada - even without the GS the prevailing tendency will still be westerly winds off the Atlantic so though colder than now in winter, we'll still be milder than 'over there'.

However, measures to slow climate change right down are the best thing.

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11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

The result of the Gulf Stream sinking further South does in fact mean we will lose its protection. However, you can't compare us with Canada - even without the GS the prevailing tendency will still be westerly winds off the Atlantic so though colder than now in winter, we'll still be milder than 'over there'.

However, measures to slow climate change right down are the best thing.

At the moment though, there is absolutely no  sign of the gulf stream weakening. If anything its gaining strength, as testified by the number of more intense Winter storms we get (eg, Storm Eunice 17.2.22). 

During the incredibly mild Winter of 2015/16, the gulf strem was unremitting as one after another depression arrived, ensuring we were in a very mild South Westerly for probably 80% of the time from November to February - especially December and January. It was so mild that the cherry blossom was appearing in mid January - 2 months early.   

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

The result of the Gulf Stream sinking further South does in fact mean we will lose its protection. However, you can't compare us with Canada - even without the GS the prevailing tendency will still be westerly winds off the Atlantic so though colder than now in winter, we'll still be milder than 'over there'.

However, measures to slow climate change right down are the best thing.

it's all based on computer modelling, none of which has been even remotely right in the past. The arctic isn't ice-free yet despite all the forecasts from "climate experts" and polar bear populations are doing well, despite the forecasts again, the Maldives hasn't sunk yet........

It's like Neil Ferguson from Imperial College (donation at least £150 million courtesy of the B&M Gates Foundation). Nobody could be more wrong more often, yet he's still in a job, wheeled on by the awestruck BBC now and again. Yet the computer code he undertook his Covid modelling on was found to be old and deeply flawed. But he did get the sack temporarily, because he went to see his girlfriend during lockdown. Just like the government, all these experts are quite happy to break their own rules, because they know the real risk ie they aren't in their mid eighties and/or suffering from serious co-morbidities....

Edited by oldcopper
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On 8/11/2022 at 10:21 AM, 1949threepence said:

At the moment though, there is absolutely no  sign of the gulf stream weakening. If anything its gaining strength, as testified by the number of more intense Winter storms we get (eg, Storm Eunice 17.2.22). 

During the incredibly mild Winter of 2015/16, the gulf strem was unremitting as one after another depression arrived, ensuring we were in a very mild South Westerly for probably 80% of the time from November to February - especially December and January. It was so mild that the cherry blossom was appearing in mid January - 2 months early.   

But are you sure that's a result of the gulf stream, rather than climate change? If Europe experiences the same things we do, then the latter is almost certainly the cause IMO.

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