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1949threepence

Cabinet Friction

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Does it really exist in any meaningful way?

If it's caused by moving the trays about, that doesn't happen every day, and when it does, the movement is very limited and therefore negligible.

Has anybody compared and contrasted a coin, say 20 years after placing in a cabinet, to what it looked like when it entered. Indeed could any changes be reasonably attributed to cabinet friction, or other causes, such as environmental.    

 

 

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Maybe it is only an auction house representation for slight worn coin? If they said it's worn, then potential buyer likely go away.  If it is said cabinet friction, then people may think hm...it's ok, friction only, then likely placing bid.  Then, auction house has their job done to sell it n grab the meaty commission.

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4 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Maybe it is only an auction house representation for slight worn coin? If they said it's worn, then potential buyer likely go away.  If it is said cabinet friction, then people may think hm...it's ok, friction only, then likely placing bid.  Then, auction house has their job done to sell it n grab the meaty commission.

Yes, I've often wondered if it's auctioneer's/dealer's hype for actual circulatory wear acquired prior to collection status. In most cases it probably is.

Even if genuinely believed, they're only making a subjective guess. There's no way they can possibly know for sure.  

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I agree that cabinet friction is just a diplomatic term for slight wear however caused. I think it is often used when you have a coin without many contact marks to make it more believable that it was caused by storage. 

The term "athlete's foot" sugars the pill for someone with a foot fungal infection. Most people with the condition are definitely not athletes!

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Absolutely - cabinet friction doesn't exist (unless you're Boris !)

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There could be slight wear due to sliding in a cabinet tray and by handling - in which case just give it a slightly lower grade! e.g. AUNC.

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31 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

There could be slight wear due to sliding in a cabinet tray and by handling - in which case just give it a slightly lower grade! e.g. AUNC.

The other (very obvious) point is that any friction from sliding about will occur on one side only, typically the obverse, as the date side will be upwards. 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

The other (very obvious) point is that any friction from sliding about will occur on one side only, typically the obverse, as the date side will be upwards. 

Not necessarily. I usually place my coins with the concave side down (if applicable). Otherwise I will store them obverse up, as people seem to be more forgiving of slight friction to the reverse than for the obverse, or if one side is already more obviously worn than the other, then I will put that side down. Date side up is probably coincidental with collecting a denomination, where the only obvious difference is the date (eg. bun head pennies) with the minute detail differences frequently requiring a glass. Been there, done that with halfpennies and shillings - which is partly why I decided to refocus in 2008.

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I’ve always held it to mean the minimal removal of tone from the highest points of the design, spoiling what might otherwise be an immaculately toned coin. Nothing that you could call wear, but definitely a less pleasing coin on account of it.

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8 hours ago, Rob said:

Not necessarily. I usually place my coins with the concave side down (if applicable). Otherwise I will store them obverse up, as people seem to be more forgiving of slight friction to the reverse than for the obverse, or if one side is already more obviously worn than the other, then I will put that side down. Date side up is probably coincidental with collecting a denomination, where the only obvious difference is the date (eg. bun head pennies) with the minute detail differences frequently requiring a glass. Been there, done that with halfpennies and shillings - which is partly why I decided to refocus in 2008.

Very fair comment.

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IMG_20200406_112945.jpg.67fde64fcb860d2aed070ae39d97f9e3.jpg 

I think the attached shows what you could call cabinet friction. The edge where it protrudes from the rest of the design. Of course, it's just wear. And I suspect the term is used less frequently these days. Probably more significant on milled coinage as that was supposedly more 'perfect' to start with. I'd call it 'light wear to high points' myself. And more likely on coins that have been in dealers' drawers for some time where there's been regular opening and closing (this coin ex Michael Sharp and probably Baldwins) than us collectors who probably don't access our collections every day.

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11 hours ago, TomGoodheart said:

IMG_20200406_112945.jpg.67fde64fcb860d2aed070ae39d97f9e3.jpg 

I think the attached shows what you could call cabinet friction. The edge where it protrudes from the rest of the design. Of course, it's just wear. And I suspect the term is used less frequently these days. Probably more significant on milled coinage as that was supposedly more 'perfect' to start with. I'd call it 'light wear to high points' myself. And more likely on coins that have been in dealers' drawers for some time where there's been regular opening and closing (this coin ex Michael Sharp and probably Baldwins) than us collectors who probably don't access our collections every day.

You could even argue in this case that cabinet friction can actually lift the value and eye-appeal of certain coins, where the design is nicely and artistically picked out by contact with a surface…where the tone has been partially removed to highlight the detail like a well-executed brass rubbing.

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59 minutes ago, Coinery said:

You could even argue in this case that cabinet friction can actually lift the value and eye-appeal of certain coins, where the design is nicely and artistically picked out by contact with a surface…where the tone has been partially removed to highlight the detail like a well-executed brass rubbing.

Forget "superb toning, let's have "excellent cabinet friction" :ph34r:

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21 minutes ago, 1949threepence said:

Forget "superb toning, let's have "excellent cabinet friction" :ph34r:

You could be on to something here 🤣🤣

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Posted (edited)

Have to say I tend to laugh about "cabinet friction ". If there is some wear due to taking a coin in and out of a cabinet then surely that is wear. Wear can happen at the mint through coins hitting one another during the minting process , or in bags, even perhaps even a weak strike pre-worn if you like. UNC refers to the condition of a coin when it leaves  and before it is released to circulation. An UNC coin is not necessary a perfect coin that would be FDC. This is where the US grading is superior to the UK grading where a badly struck coin can be graded  as MS 60 with a better coin MS 64. This not to  say US  US TPGs are accurate in their grading but the  grading system allows for a range of condition other than wear for an uncirculated coin. I guess a FDC would equate to MS 70.

Edited by ozjohn
More info & typo

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On 7/14/2022 at 1:50 AM, Coinery said:

I’ve always held it to mean the minimal removal of tone from the highest points of the design, spoiling what might otherwise be an immaculately toned coin. Nothing that you could call wear, but definitely a less pleasing coin on account of it.

 

On 7/14/2022 at 10:25 PM, Coinery said:

You could even argue in this case that cabinet friction can actually lift the value and eye-appeal of certain coins, where the design is nicely and artistically picked out by contact with a surface…where the tone has been partially removed to highlight the detail like a well-executed brass rubbing.

I am rather of the opinion that the lack of toning on the high points is not due to the removal of tone by slight friction. I think it is more likely that the coin has experienced light wear centuries ago resulting in the loss of lustre on the high points. The lustrous fields tones nicely over the centuries but the high points do not. Just a thought.

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