The crazy world of Top pop buyers

[azda 973]

A common 1913 half Sov

[oldcopper 275]

1 hour ago, azda said:

A common 1913 half Sov

As one dealer told me, this micro-incremental grading scale is just a way of making more money out of collectors. This here being a prime example.

[azda 973]

5 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

As one dealer told me, this micro-incremental grading scale is just a way of making more money out of collectors. This here being a prime example.

Exactly.

[Silverlocks 81]

The nice thing about George V sovs is that you can get really good examples at bullion prices.  Something like 440 million were minted in total and they were uncirculated for most of the 22 years they were in production.  Most of mine would grade between AU-58 and MS-63 and I've got a 1918 that would probably do better than that.  They're nice coins but Georges in that condition are fairly common and they're not worth grading.

I know folks who love their premium slabbed coins and actually buy proof sets from the RM to send off to NGC in pursuit of the coveted PF70 Ultra Cameo.  However, I can't really bring myself to get excited about slabbed coins, let alone paying top dollar for them.

One can see the point in the US with the enormous trade in restoring Morgan dollars and suchlike.  Having an expert certify that the thing is at least genuine, especially when you're going to shell out hundreds of dollars for a coin with a melt value of $20, sort of makes sense.  Buying a brand new proof coin and immediately bundling it off to a grading firm - not so much.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by Silverlocks

[VickySilver 775]

How about one of the major driving forces behind this "pop top" business? Registry sets! Yikes.

The TPGs rate people's submitted sets but note that all coins must be from that TPG and no others included. I probably let my pride get the better of me, but thrice with regards to sixpences and shillings (Victoria and George V) and Victoria half sovereigns, I suggested to each poster on one of the chat rooms that possibly I might blow their set(s) out of the water but chose not to party at their end of the pool & of course they took exception. I guess my real point is that there are many coins that are not slabbed or not entered into registry set competition.

[Rob 2,996]

40 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

How about one of the major driving forces behind this "pop top" business? Registry sets! Yikes.

The TPGs rate people's submitted sets but note that all coins must be from that TPG and no others included. I probably let my pride get the better of me, but thrice with regards to sixpences and shillings (Victoria and George V) and Victoria half sovereigns, I suggested to each poster on one of the chat rooms that possibly I might blow their set(s) out of the water but chose not to party at their end of the pool & of course they took exception. I guess my real point is that there are many coins that are not slabbed or not entered into registry set competition.

Like the guy who took exception when I suggested they were collecting opinions. Was it MS65 1967 pennies? Whatever, really rare because only a handful had been slabbed in such exalted grade. Thus proving that most people still retain their marbles.

[1949threepence 3,366]

The top pop trend Is insane. There are 70 points on the NGC scale, each one of which is worth 1.43% - a very small amount when one considers the extent to which subjectivity, inconsistency and carelessness must go into each grading. To pay thousands extra for a top pop is crazy, considering a) that it can be beaten, or b) that the grader may be having an off day/his colleagues are stricter/softer than him, has to be the height of stupidity, unless you are literally the initial seller about to make a killing from someone prepared to pay.

The only true winners are those ex graded items from the first seller, who knows, that for a short time at least, he has the lead item.

Comparison with the coins just under top pop would probably reveal examples that were superior to the current top pop.  

[blakeyboy 1,601]

Don't get me started, Mike- even though your talent for doing so is impressive!!!!

You are so so right.  Madness.  Same same same in my world of vintage Pro Audio.

 

Does anyone get pleasure from such coins?

All the sane people on this forum know what I mean- such coins don't HAVE to be graded highly 

by someone else for a fee...

 

I have an acquaintance who collects expensive whisky.

He has a mouth-watering collection.

He has no idea what any of them taste like.

 

Nuff said.

[Peckris 2 2,043]

2 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I have an acquaintance who collects expensive whisky.

He has a mouth-watering collection.

He has no idea what any of them taste like.

The world of vinyl collectors is no different. A slightly battered and scratched first pressing of Floyd's 'Piper At the  Gates of Dawn ' is still apparently worth more than a slightly later pressing in mint condition where the ONLY difference is that the first doesn't have the words "File under Popular" on the reverse foldback of the sleeve. Sigh.

[ozjohn 552]

Like buying a coin buy the coin not the grade buy the music not the medium it’s recorded on.

[VickySilver 775]

Sometimes a bit of reverse psychology can work in one's favor with this grading business. The recent MDC Monaco sale featured TWO 1848/6 sixpences both graded by NGC.

One was a "61", the other a "62" both relatively lower mint state grade coins. The latter appeared better, if one was a grader likely either a 63 or 64 and went for relatively cheap - about 1/3 the price of a similar coin sold raw about 3-4 years ago....So worked out nicely.

Now only if I can get the 1848 6d WITHOUT overdate!

[Kipster 156]

Not sure if anyone is watching the coin cabinet auction, but some lunatic has just won an MS67 1967 sovereign for a hammer of £13,000...

😯

[Diaconis 695]

[Kipster 156]

And just before that, a 1965 MS66, and a 1966 MS66 hammered for £4,100 and £4,000 respectively...

Same bidder I think, paddle numbers looked similar.

What am I missing here?

[Martinminerva 265]

39 minutes ago, Kipster said:

What am I missing here?

Nothing.  Coin collectors like the circular bits of metal.  These other people like a square piece of plastic with an arbitrary number printed on it.  Two completely different sets of people.  Perhaps some enterprising individual could separate the two camps fully by just issuing bits of plastic without anything in them!! 😉

[Rob 2,996]

1 hour ago, Martinminerva said:

Nothing.  Coin collectors like the circular bits of metal.  These other people like a square piece of plastic with an arbitrary number printed on it.  Two completely different sets of people.  Perhaps some enterprising individual could separate the two camps fully by just issuing bits of plastic without anything in them!! 😉

Yes, but they tend to get upset when you tell them. When I pointed out to someone on CoinTalk that 'I collect coins, while you collect opinions', he got a bit miffed. Diplomacy has never been my strong point, so if someone could enlighten me on how to call a spade a spade without offending, I would like to know.

[Coinery 926]

Never the Twain shall meet, thank goodness! We should celebrate and enjoy our differences because, unfortunately/fortunately, they can never have that party!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Coinery

[Diaconis 695]

19 hours ago, Rob said:

Yes, but they tend to get upset when you tell them. When I pointed out to someone on CoinTalk that 'I collect coins, while you collect opinions', he got a bit miffed. Diplomacy has never been my strong point, so if someone could enlighten me on how to call a spade a spade without offending, I would like to know.

You simply made a statement concerning the reality of things. As Diogenes said, “Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings?” 😉

[Varietalis 20]

On 9/22/2023 at 9:25 PM, Martinminerva said:

Nothing.  Coin collectors like the circular bits of metal.  These other people like a square piece of plastic with an arbitrary number printed on it.  Two completely different sets of people.  Perhaps some enterprising individual could separate the two camps fully by just issuing bits of plastic without anything in them!! 😉

This just sold today - £700 for a worthless coin in a holder with PL66 on it.  How it got this grade and how it achieved £700 beggars belief.

https://auction.royalmint.com/lot-details/index/catalog/41/lot/3166

 

[Martinminerva 265]

1 hour ago, Varietalis said:

On 9/22/2023 at 9:25 PM, Martinminerva said:

Nothing.  Coin collectors like the circular bits of metal.  These other people like a square piece of plastic with an arbitrary number printed on it.  Two completely different sets of people.  Perhaps some enterprising individual could separate the two camps fully by just issuing bits of plastic without anything in them!! 😉

This just sold today - £700 for a worthless coin in a holder with PL66 on it.  How it got this grade and how it achieved £700 beggars belief.

https://auction.royalmint.com/lot-details/index/catalog/41/lot/3166

I despair... "dark toning" my ar*e. It's tarnish, corrosion or even rust to me! Their blurb also states :  "Although 158 examples of the coin have been graded by PCGS only 3 could be considered better than this. " well, my own polished die 1960 is unworn, bright, untarnished and unscratched and for me eminently better, retaining its prooflike status. And it cost me just ten quid. I know which I prefer to own, but, yes, I collect coins, not American, random, crazy opinions. I bet a quick trawl of internet / ebay could find many that are better. Subjective, yes, but in what way isn't PCGS subjective??

[Peckris 2 2,043]

6 hours ago, Varietalis said:

This just sold today - £700 for a worthless coin in a holder with PL66 on it.  How it got this grade and how it achieved £700 beggars belief.

https://auction.royalmint.com/lot-details/index/catalog/41/lot/3166

Crazily, this particular coin made $576 two years ago.

[Rob 2,996]

They only book at £10 Unc or £35 BU, whatever that difference means, but I can't shift them at 35 (maybe 25-30), so given £700 hammer is £868 with juice, who in their right mind would pay 30x market rate for one of these?

[Martinminerva 265]

21 minutes ago, Rob said:

who in their right mind...

And therein is the entire answer!

[blakeyboy 1,601]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

They only book at £10 Unc or £35 BU, whatever that difference means, but I can't shift them at 35 (maybe 25-30), so given £700 hammer is £868 with juice, who in their right mind would pay 30x market rate for one of these?

...do you have their name and address?     I have some tat to shift...:-)