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azda

Peck Number required

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So, looking at this coin and its been graded by NGC as MS but I think it's a proof, I have a ballpark Peck number of 1242 KH22. Can someone clarify if I'm right or wrong please.

K on the drapery and dot to the right, 6 jewels in the broach. Rev has 3 dots raised to the right of the rock, shield has a thin raised rim and what looks like 14 leaves on the olive branch.

Screenshot 2022-03-30 at 10.27.10.png

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Reverse

Screenshot 2022-03-30 at 10.28.06.png

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I am no expert but it sure looks like a bronzed proof

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51 minutes ago, azda said:

Reverse

Screenshot 2022-03-30 at 10.28.06.png

I haven't got Peck to hand but from memory isn't P.1242 the copper proof with a sequence of dots instead of or next to the K?

It's not the 1233-1235 series as it lacks the die flaw on the drapery (I can't see it), so is it the bronzed analogue (P.1244?) of the gilt P.1243. I take it it's got an engrailed edge.

There may be other choices though but P.1244 is the common alternative to P.1234 I guess. From memory again I say quickly!

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

I haven't got Peck to hand but from memory isn't P.1242 the copper proof with a sequence of dots instead of or next to the K?

It's not the 1233-1235 series as it lacks the die flaw on the drapery (I can't see it), so is it the bronzed analogue (P.1244?) of the gilt P.1243. I take it it's got an engrailed edge.

There may be other choices though but P.1244 is the common alternative to P.1234 I guess. From memory again I say quickly!

The 1242 has a sub reference KH22 (1242 has a 7 jewelled brooch and as you mentioned is copper proof)the 1242 KH22 ists as

Struck from current die, with K added before dot (so only 1 dot) on the shoulder

K on lowest fold of drapery

Brooch with 6 square jewels

Wreath has 11 leaves but no branching views visible

Tie ribbons show 1 loopmwith 2 loose ends, not straited

Small rust spot to the cheeks and another Ron lower lip

REV

Middle prong of trident points to left of first limn on N

3 raised dots on rock

Shield has thin raised rim

14 leaves olive branch

Ship has a poop with very small flag with 3 or 4 very minute relief gunport (pic isn't great to see this detail)

It could be another variant, but was throwing it out there as my ballpark reference

Edited by azda
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This is NGCs picture, as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike

Screenshot 2022-03-30 at 12.03.06.png

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10 minutes ago, azda said:

The 1242 has a sub reference KH22 (1242 has a 7 jewelled brooch and as you mentioned is copper proof)the 1242 KH22 ists as

Struck from current die, with K added before do (so only 1 dot) on the shoulder

K on lowest fold of drapery

Brooch with 6 square jewels

Wreath has 11 leaves but no branching views visible

Tie ribbons show 1 loopmwith 2 loose ends, not straited

Small rust spot to the cheeks and another Ron lower lip

REV

Middle prong of trident points to left of first limn on N

3 raised dots on rock

Shield has thin raised rim

14 leaves olive branch

Ship has a poop with very small flag with 3 or 4 very minute relief gunport (pic isn't great to see this detail)

It could be another variant, but was throwing it out there as my ballpark reference

I've just checked and P.1242 is KH21 and has 3 dots instead of a K on the truncation.

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/lot-archive/lot.php?lot_uid=404661

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Need a better picture

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So this has just landed but no time for some camera pics, just a quick one with the phone,  and seen that the edge is grained

090A29C8-2EEB-4630-B607-3C96AFD8DF5A.jpeg

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Hopefully the picture is big enough to ID

Screenshot 2022-04-04 at 12.42.30.png

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REV

Screenshot 2022-04-04 at 12.43.28.png

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I'd go 1244, but would prefer bigger pictures.

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25 minutes ago, Rob said:

I'd go 1244, but would prefer bigger pictures.

PM me your email address again Rob and i’ll send large pics, the forum has a max limit.

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1 hour ago, azda said:

PM me your email address again Rob and i’ll send large pics, the forum has a max limit.

My Royal Doulton has cracked. I could do with some new dinner plates.

Very nice coin, by the way.

  • Haha 1

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8 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

My Royal Doulton has cracked. I could do with some new dinner plates.

Very nice coin, by the way.

Cheers, sometimes you need to have dinner plates too see the finer details. I'm sending the files onto Rob, they'll be 20meg each as they are RAW files instead of jpegs. The actual coin is darker in colour, I just upped the brightness to get more visible detail. Once I can confirm the Peck number I'll try and get a more representative picture.

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10 hours ago, azda said:

Cheers, sometimes you need to have dinner plates too see the finer details. I'm sending the files onto Rob, they'll be 20meg each as they are RAW files instead of jpegs. The actual coin is darker in colour, I just upped the brightness to get more visible detail. Once I can confirm the Peck number I'll try and get a more representative picture.

Looked at Peck earlier and the of two obverses it could be, KH22 and KH23, Peck says the only difference is a flaw on the first G of GEORGIUS in KH23 - I can't  seen it at all in Peck's plaster cast photograph of KH23! Perhaps other people can spot it. However, your photographs give better resolution I suspect, and I can't see any flaw on these either.

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1 minute ago, oldcopper said:

Looked at Peck earlier and the of two obverses it could be, KH22 and KH23, Peck says the only difference is a flaw on the first G of GEORGIUS in KH23 - I can't  seen it at all in Peck's plaster cast photograph of KH23! Perhaps other people can spot it. However, your photographs give better resolution I suspect, and I can't see any flaw on these either.

Yes, that's the problem with taking pictures through plastic. I taken a few more with the iPhone and shot them over to Rob in an email and see if I can get it pinned down. I don't have any sort of setup for coin pics, I have a Sony A7s, but that's more for astrophotography plus the weather is dull and miserable here today, so I'm pissing against the wind right now.

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Looked at Peck earlier and the of two obverses it could be, KH22 and KH23, Peck says the only difference is a flaw on the first G of GEORGIUS in KH23 - I can't  seen it at all in Peck's plaster cast photograph of KH23! Perhaps other people can spot it. However, your photographs give better resolution I suspect, and I can't see any flaw on these either.

I also checked Peck and couldn't find the flaw that he referred to.

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Posted (edited)

The flaw on the KH23 isn't very prominent. It's more obvious from the rim to the G, but thinner as it leaves the G and heads for the truncation in a gentle arc to the right. That is the only difference between KH22 and KH23 and arguably is just a late stage 22 not worthy of a separate number.

To differentiate KH16 & KH22, the first has a flaw under the armpit and SOHO is in line. The second has no flaw and the second O is lower. The flag on the ship is also smaller on the latter die.

WIN_20220405_13_11_59_Pro.jpg

Edited by Rob
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So in short P1244 KH22. Thanks people for the help. Will send it back now for correct attribution.

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15 hours ago, azda said:

So in short P1244 KH22. Thanks people for the help. Will send it back now for correct attribution.

Seems like a waste of money. What are the odds on them getting it right the next time, or a second, third etc time I they disagree with your assessment. 

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On 4/6/2022 at 11:22 AM, Rob said:

Seems like a waste of money. What are the odds on them getting it right the next time, or a second, third etc time I they disagree with your assessment. 

True, but I'm not sure if there's a charge to correct their mistake. Will have to ask about that.

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46 minutes ago, azda said:

True, but I'm not sure if there's a charge to correct their mistake. Will have to ask about that.

Still costs you to post the item and it's not as if they will learn from the mistake.

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1 hour ago, Rob said:

Still costs you to post the item and it's not as if they will learn from the mistake.

NGC are here in Munich

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Let’s see if they get it right this time

 

Please send the coin to us, for a free of charge review in US.

Please write on the submission “Grader Review as per Anna, April 14, 2022” 

You may also add ATTN. ANNA

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