Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Recommended Posts

As we know as collectors, flicking through Groom, Davies and Rayner can be tiresome - so here is a quick list to check that you have all the varieties

 

If you have any more varieties I would be interested in a reply so I can add them to the list. Hopefully this is something that will benefit new collectors - I know it is something I really needed!

 

1816

1817 Large Head

1817 Large Head, D/T in DEI

1817 Large Head, I/Arabic 1 in FID

1817 Large Head, E/F in DEF

1817 Large Head, F/E in REX

1817 Large Head, U/U in QUI

1817 Large Head, S/I in PENSE

1817 Large Head, E/F in DEI

(don't feel like you have to collect all the 1817's :))

1817 Small Head

1817 Small Head, bottom loop of 8 open

1818

1819

1819, 9/8

1819, 9/9

1820 George III

1820 George IV

1821, 11 leaves on thistle

1821, 6 leaves on thistle

1821, R/B in BRITANNIAR (not sure which R - does it even matter as the vast majority of us will never see one!)

1823 Shield

1823, N/E in PENSE

1823 Garter (rare)

1824 Laureate Head

1824 Bare Head

1825

1826, I of BRIT has serifs

1826, I of BRIT missing top left serif

1828

1829

1834, block WW (harder)

1834, italic WW

1835

1836

1836, 6/5

1836, L/E in LMVS

1837

1839 (varieties exist but is a rare coin so just put the one)

1840

1841

1842

1843

1844, 4's without serifs

1844, 4's with serifs

1845, 4 without serif

1845, 4 with serif

1845, 5/3 (ext rare)

1846, 4 without serif

1846, 4 with serif (does it exist?)

1846, 8/6

1848

1848, second 8/6 (does this come with 4 with a serif and without a serif, if not this could tell us a lot about which varieties were minted first and which were minted last???)

1848, 8/7 (rare)

1849, large date

1849, small date

1850

1874, 4 without serif

1874, 4 with serif (does it exist?)

1875

1876

1876, 6/5

1877

1878

1879, I of DEI to gap

1879, I of DEI to bead

1880, I of FID to gap

1880, I of FID to bead

1881, I of DEI to gap

1881, I of DEI to bead

1882

1883

1884

1885

1886

1887 Young

1887 Jubilee, 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch

1887 Jubilee, one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown

1888

1889, OBV: 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch, REV: cross has curved edges and large pearl

1889, OBV: 2 thick lines below crown and nearly 4 pearls in centre arch, REV: cross has straight edges and small pearl

1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: cross has curved edges and large pearl

1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: cross has straight edges and small pearl

1889, OBV: one thick line with a thin line below and above which is situated below the crown and 3 pearls in centre arch of crown, REV: large cross

(DAVIES IS RUBBISH AT THIS :( SO LOOK AT ALLCOINVALUES SITE AND GOUBY'S TO HELP YOU, IT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE WHEN YOU DO)

1890

1891

1892

1893, I of BRITT to tooth

1893, I of BRITT to gap

1894, I of BRITT to tooth

1894, I of BRITT to gap

1895

1896, thin rim

1896, thick rim

1897

1898

1899

1900

1901

1902

1903

1904

1905

1906

1907

1908

1909

1910

1911

1912

1913

1914

1915

1916

1917

1918

1919

1920, E of DEI has no serif

1920, E of DEI has serif (there are other varieties but I cannot be bothered, if you can and the descriptions are better than in Davies then please do!)

1921, 1 to bead

1921, 1 to space

1922, short H of HONI

1922, tall H of HONI

1923

1924

1925

1926, I of IVS left of tooth

1926, I of IVS to tooth

1927

1928, thin rim on REV, 9 to space

1928, thin rim on REV, 9 to bead

1928, thick rim on REV

1929, D of IND to gap

1929, D of IND to tooth

1930

1931

1932

1933, normal rim

1933, thin rim

1934

1935

1936

1937

1937, with a die crack below the 7, not something British numismatists are interested in, I know, but something to add in and look out for perhaps

1938

1939

1940

1941

1942

1943

1944

1945

1946

1947

1948

1949

1950

1951

1952

1953, A of GRA to gap

1953, A of GRA to bead

1954

1955

1956

1957

1958

1959

1960

1961, full initials (the following are due to die fills so there are many 'varieties')

1961, unbarred E or F

1961, EF missing

1961, EF and C missing

1961, EF and CT missing

1961, polished die

1962, I of TIA to gap, D of DEF to tooth

1962, I of TIA to gap, D of DEF to gap

1962, I of TIA to tooth, D of DEF to tooth

1962, I of TIA to tooth, D of DEF to gap

1963

1964

1965

1966

1967

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1887 Jubilee three different obverses

The two you mention and 20 pearls to the brooch instead of the usual 16 this is paired with different reverses.

three different reverses.

Broken G (just a die flaw but scarce)

7 to a space

7 to a bead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, 1887jubilee said:

1887 Jubilee three different obverses

The two you mention and 20 pearls to the brooch instead of the usual 16 this is paired with different reverses.

three different reverses.

Broken G (just a die flaw but scarce)

7 to a space

7 to a bead

I know about the 7 to space amd bead but believe that this variety is only on proofs - and I am not including proofs.

How is the G broken? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1926 varieties : you need to say whether these relate to the ME or earlier effigy.

The 1961 varieties : the disappearance of EF and CT are purely due to die fill; people were once excited about them and they appeared in lists as varieties, but I'd say they haven't been listed for decades as people stopped regarding them as anything but gradually filling dies and therefore nothing to get excited about. The polished blank (not die IMO) is more interesting, but not so well known is that there are several CuNi strikes after 1953 that are on polished blanks. I can't remember the dates offhand but I have one halfcrown and one 6d - both 50s - that are definitely on polished blanks. My theory is that they produced way too many for 1953 proofs and slowly used them up.

Edited by Peckris 2
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe I have seen 1961 on the halfcrowns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I believe I have seen 1961 on the halfcrowns

not quite with you, old chap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah sorry that was before coffee!

I meant PL 1961 halfcrowns struck on planchets that appear to have been meant for proofs. BTW if anybody has one, I would be a buyer as I had previously passed (I think about 10-15 quid).

I actually have a genuine proof 1961 2/6 but even some years ago it wasn't cheap.

Edited by VickySilver
clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Ah sorry that was before coffee!

I meant PL 1961 halfcrowns struck on planchets that appear to have been meant for proofs. BTW if anybody has one, I would be a buyer as I had previously passed (I think about 10-15 quid).

I actually have a genuine proof 1961 2/6 but even some years ago it wasn't cheap.

Yes, it is also called a polished die, saw one on eBay currently - there will always be one at some time, but I wouldn’t pay more than £12 maybe. I hope that helps :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I brought this 1961 half crown it was suggested it might be a polished planchet could never make my mind up if it was, anyone have any thoughts?

Half Crown 1961 O Resized.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not convinced that it is not die preparation. LOL. Double negative. I personally believe that it is polished die, and not planchet or proof. I don't have it in hand obviously but possibly more than simple a polished die as the lettering and even the QE II bust has a bit more refinement/detail of strike possibly. I guess that I really should get a specimen myself and can't argue with the minimal price either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sleepy said:

When I brought this 1961 half crown it was suggested it might be a polished planchet could never make my mind up if it was, anyone have any thoughts?

Half Crown 1961 O Resized.jpg

It is basically impossible to tell from photos. The easiest way to tell is to get an uncirculated halfcrown and hold them up to each other. I too had this problem when I was first collecting, I was scared that I wouldn't be able to tell - but once you have it against an uncirculated one it is very easy. If you have a proof halfcrown then it will 'look' exactly like that. Hope that helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/21/2022 at 4:40 PM, VickySilver said:

I am not convinced that it is not die preparation. LOL. Double negative. I personally believe that it is polished die, and not planchet or proof. I don't have it in hand obviously but possibly more than simple a polished die as the lettering and even the QE II bust has a bit more refinement/detail of strike possibly. I guess that I really should get a specimen myself and can't argue with the minimal price either.

The problem with that is - as I've said - that there are PL examples of other denominations and dates (I can't remember exactly, but I do have a halfcrown and sixpence from the 50s, one I'm sure is 1955). If all those are polished dies then you'd have to ask why. On the other hand, perhaps 1961 is a special case given the PL crowns struck in New York (Expo?).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please do share pictures if you can....The crown was 1960 dated...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Please do share pictures if you can....The crown was 1960 dated...

No meaningful pictures. Oops about the date of the crown!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shameless: if you or others have any for sale including the common 1961 2/6 I would be a customer....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/15/2022 at 3:27 PM, yaaseen said:

I know about the 7 to space amd bead but believe that this variety is only on proofs - and I am not including proofs.

How is the G broken?   image.png.7af18bebab7e55d28d4bea836f426194.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 1887jubilee said:

 

I did find one on eBay after you left me this message. I put a bid in but sadly missed. I found that the top bit of the G of GRATIA was missing. So - another micro-variety! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, yaaseen said:

I did find one on eBay after you left me this message. I put a bid in but sadly missed. I found that the top bit of the G of GRATIA was missing. So - another micro-variety! 

Bits missing from letters are usually filled dies, and much less often from a broken punch. In the case of the latter, the character would normally be repaired, e.g an 'F' with the bottom bar added separately to make an E.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

1882 has 2 varieties, reverse C and reverse D 

1889 obverse 2 is paired with reverses A, B & C 

Edited by just.me
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/4/2022 at 3:14 AM, just.me said:

1882 has 2 varieties, reverse C and reverse D 

1889 obverse 2 is paired with reverses A, B & C 

Oh interesting - not in Davies.

Do you know where they were published?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr T said:

Oh interesting - not in Davies.

Do you know where they were published?

I don’t know if they’ve been published anywhere. There were a number of varieties Peter Davies confirmed after he published his book. He kept notes of them all and gave them cat. Numbers usually with letters after the numbers. I bought an example of each of these 2 Halfcrowns from him along with some other coins back around 2010/11. I’ve attached a pic of my 5+C 1882 

93C51DC6-E0AA-46D5-BE15-2A7697987D79.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shame - I periodically see the unlisted types get mentioned here and note them down.

I don't suppose there was an auction of Davies' collection at any point? Or is he still collecting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mr T said:

I don't suppose there was an auction of Davies' collection at any point? Or is he still collecting?

Some of his collection was sold though London Coin Auctions in 2009, Auction 124. I think lots 1135 > 1367. It's good to look through them for the info and a bonus having the images. He also had a sales list that he sold coins from. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah nice, thanks - looks I had that bookmarked but the auction search doesn't seem to highlight whose collection it was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×