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23 hours ago, Sword said:

"Rejected" coins still get encapsulated (with a yellow label instead of white). In addition, a grade (UNC details, AU details, EF details etc) is also given but without a number. 

What on earth is the point of that? You've then got a slabbed coin carrying a garish "don't buy me" insert.

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32 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

What on earth is the point of that? You've then got a slabbed coin carrying a garish "don't buy me" insert.

Authentication I guess. You might have a very rare variety with a minor flan flaw for example.

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9 hours ago, Sword said:

Authentication I guess. You might have a very rare variety with a minor flan flaw for example.

Why would a flan flaw fall in to the rejected category?

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12 minutes ago, Diaconis said:

Why would a flan flaw fall in to the rejected category?

It was just an arbitrary decision taken by them in the beginning.

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10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

What on earth is the point of that? You've then got a slabbed coin carrying a garish "don't buy me" insert.

I totally agree. No idea what the "small print" ahead of slabbing says, but surely it would be better to just return the coin unslabbed, with more than a one word explanation.

Not saying you need an essay, but instead of "altered" for example, how about "we noticed scratches on the Queen's neck which we interpret to be deliberately placed post mint", or some such? Just to point the sender in the direction of precisely why the rejection occurred. Simply saying "altered" is insufficient information. 

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Posted (edited)

 

The cost was £12 / £16 and the opinion given.

If they didnt charge for rejections ,maybe people would then be saying....They have not rejected it because they dont get PAID unless they say its ok....Cant win 😀

With regards letting the customer know the reason in more depth i think the majority of the time you could tell if they had a second look ,cleaned ,scratched ,damaged,fake etc.Although if not then it was easy to just phone them up and ask for a quick explanation. Again this is a service that was provided in my opinion very cheaply and no doubt they could of perhaps done more ,maybe then though people would of said they are charging to much ,when they put the prices up.

No matter what they do or the opinion they give you wont please everyone if you are honest ,maybe people dont like finding out that someone else does not think its as good as they do or annoyed they missed a problem that someone else spotted.More often than not the people who have not been happy is because the grade was strict or the coin rejected ,they are then not happy with the opinion and service and maybe dont use them again ,rather than learning from the opinion.

Its an opinion and people who dont want it dont send them ,could not be more simple.

Maybe the perfect business model is to just grade everything really high ,dont reject any and dont charge anything ,although even then maybe some people would not be happy.

I as many others have , been sending them to NGC and after sending coins to another company for years feel i am comfortable in the grade and condition before i send them ,but will be the first to admit that if something comes back that i missed and only saw after then i was wrong and know they are providing the service i asked for.

 

 

Edited by PWA 1967
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Would 'Altered on the neck' or whatever the problem is, be too difficult to do, instead of just 'Altered' ? I think not.

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41 minutes ago, Iannich48 said:

Would 'Altered on the neck' or whatever the problem is, be too difficult to do, instead of just 'Altered' ? I think not.

Absolutely. I can't see why customers should have to be involved in an unnecessary guessing game, when all it takes is the briefest of explanations to explain the precise reason for rejection. Essentially we're all still guessing now, and the one word given by the TPG was the entire reason for the OP's thread starter.   

 

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5 minutes ago, Iannich48 said:

Would 'Altered on the neck' or whatever the problem is, be too difficult to do, instead of just 'Altered' ? I think not.

Good point Ian ,although i think it could go on forever and then not only would it not fit on the ticket ,2 or 3 peoples opinion would need to be typed on.

One grader might think its been altered in another part aswell etc ,so its either Altered or not.Like cleaned is cleaned or damage is damage etc. ,not exactly on the coin which could be numerous parts.

I think the Florin pictured probably was as although i dont have a clue about them the other 30 ish they have graded were all ok ,so not a flaw thats on others and maybe a difference. I may be wrong just as they might of been and if so the coin gets broken out ,still the same coin that you sent them and not cost much for people to have a look at. The problem is if you dont learn and keep buying them with the same faults after showing the coin in hand to someone else who may confirm CGS were right.

I only buy and used to collect pennies ,so dont have a clue about rejections for any silver coins.

Either way CGS dont do them anymore and i hope with NGC they find some problems with mine i send so i know they are doing a good job ,maybe if they do i can query the rejection with them should i need to 🙂

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13 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

What on earth is the point of that? You've then got a slabbed coin carrying a garish "don't buy me" insert.

 

Thats 100% right IMO they are basiclly saying that in their opinion its not maybe right or has problems and dont try to re - sell it as being ok with our name on the slab.

 

 

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I don't understand this thread now it's developed.

 

I have some rather nice Swedish and Finnish glassware.

I have some nice paintings.

I have some nice small sculpture pieces.

 

I have them all because they appealed to me, and continue to do so.

They also have an accruing monetary value, which is nice to know for emergencies.

I do not feel the need to pay for someone's opinion of them, and put them in plastic cases.

 

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Surely it requires an element of commonsense. If you take, for example, "verdigris" as a reason for rejection - if the verd is obvious and easily visible to the naked eye, then yes, the single word "verdigris" is adequate. But if it's one (or even a few) tiny specks, only visible under high magnification, then it's surely reasonable to expect a pointer as to where it, or even just one of the specks, is. Same with "altered". If tooling is obvious and widespread, fair enough, "altered" covers it. But if it's not obvious, then a few further words of explanation are helpful. 

Otherwise the customer's understandable reaction is going to be "where, what?".

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Here are a couple of florin obverses from 1848-1852 (sorry no 1851!):

 

8E21FDE5-29AE-499F-9E29-7800E6917934.jpeg

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Sorry phone only allows 1 photo total

will try later

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2 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Here are a couple of florin obverses from 1848-1852 (sorry no 1851!):

 

8E21FDE5-29AE-499F-9E29-7800E6917934.jpeg

1848 is pretty good though!

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12 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Maybe the perfect business model is to just grade everything really high ,dont reject any and dont charge anything ,although even then maybe some people would not be happy.

A much more perfect business model would be to provide value for money - i.e. give the customer good feedback which is, after all, what they've paid for. You say 'either way they can't win', but I disagree; reject coins by all means if they deserve but how much effort does it involve to provide a properly worded reason?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

A much more perfect business model would be to provide value for money - i.e. give the customer good feedback which is, after all, what they've paid for. You say 'either way they can't win', but I disagree; reject coins by all means if they deserve but how much effort does it involve to provide a properly worded reason?

Yes your right all the grading companies could do more and give more of a reason ,although with regards value for money £12 ,£16 and £26 including vat i think is. I send them for a numerical grade and to be put in plastic to confirm the grade and take pictures should it be re sold ,that is what they say they will do for the price and what i pay for.

Coins that are rejected are not given a numerical grade and returned with a reason ,these reasons are explained in more detail on the website as it wont fit on the slab.

With regards how much effort to provide a properly worded reason for something not offered , it does not sound much to what may be a couple of lines ,although every coin is obviously different and they did not offer the service of a report or properly worded reason to describe the problems in great detail , just to either give it a numerical grade or reject it.Not many are rejected for something that is unusual like the one mentioned and pictured ,however if every coin rejected for other reasons ( of which there are thousands of coins ) after 2/3 graders looked at it i feel sure the price would go up , were would this information go on a seperate typed out email or letter perhaps ,how much aggravation would it cause if six parts of the coin with problems were mentioned and one part not or vice versa .

If the price goes up then most people would be paying extra for a report or information they did not need or want in the first place.

My own experience when i have asked for help and an explanation on rejects i had was way over the service i originally paid for and i was really greatful.

What i said was either way they cant win if they dont charge for rejections as people may think its not been rejected because they dont get paid.

I think the answer would be if you would like a full report the price would be £XXXX or alternatively dont send it and show it a dealer or put pictures on the pre-decimal coin forum 👍 

 

 

 

 

Edited by PWA 1967
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5 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Yes your right all the grading companies could do more and give more of a reason ,although with regards value for money £12 ,£16 and £26 including vat i think is. I send them for a numerical grade and to be put in plastic to confirm the grade and take pictures should it be re sold ,that is what they say they will do for the price and what i pay for.

Coins that are rejected are not given a numerical grade and returned with a reason ,these reasons are explained in more detail on the website as it wont fit on the slab.

With regards how much effort to provide a properly worded reason for something not offered , it does not sound much to what may be a couple of lines ,although every coin is obviously different and they did not offer the service of a report or properly worded reason to describe the problems in great detail , just to either give it a numerical grade or reject it.Not many are rejected for something that is unusual like the one mentioned and pictured ,however if every coin rejected for other reasons ( of which there are thousands of coins ) after 2/3 graders looked at it i feel sure the price would go up , were would this information go on a seperate typed out email or letter perhaps ,how much aggravation would it cause if six parts of the coin with problems were mentioned and one part not or vice versa .

If the price goes up then most people would be paying extra for a report or information they did not need or want in the first place.

My own experience when i have asked for help and an explanation on rejects i had was way over the service i originally paid for and i was really greatful.

What i said was either way they cant win if they dont charge for rejections as people may think its not been rejected because they dont get paid.

I think the answer would be if you would like a full report the price would be £XXXX or alternatively dont send it and show it a dealer or put pictures on the pre-decimal coin forum 👍 

 

 

 

 

Oh, right. So there's some great advice for @Paulus who was also presumably in the dark. That's obviously an extremely relevant point of which some of us were completely unaware until you just mentioned it. Have you just found that out, Pete?

All we need now is for the company to helpfully point that out when they return the coin, and all's good. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

Oh, right. So there's some great advice for @Paulus who was also presumably in the dark. That's obviously an extremely relevant point of which some of us were completely unaware until you just mentioned it. Have you just found that out, Pete?

All we need now is for the company to helpfully point that out when they return the coin, and all's good. 

The descriptions for each reason have always been there and most collectors familiar with them , they were also then put in the terms and conditions which people signed before they sent them.People signing the paperwork when things changed were made fully aware of the service they provide and the one word for a rejection , therefore they did not expect anymore for the price they were paying

Corrosion ,Verd ,Damage ,Fake ,Altered etc.............This one word i think is enough for the majority of people and the TPG are not going to agree to an after service for every coin sent to them or more information in writing for the same fee.

I might not of explained myself very well being thick as rather than individual reason ,i should of put definition for each rejection is on the website 😀

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by PWA 1967

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

The descriptions for each reason have always been there and most collectors familiar with them , they were also then put in the terms and conditions which people signed before they sent them.People signing the paperwork when things changed were made fully aware of the service they provide and the one word for a rejection , therefore they did not expect anymore for the price they were paying

Corrosion ,Verd ,Damage ,Fake ,Altered etc.............This one word i think is enough for the majority of people and the TPG are not going to agree to an after service for every coin sent to them or more information in writing for the same fee.

I might not of explained myself very well being thick as rather than individual reason ,i should of put definition for each rejection is on the website 😀

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, generic definition of the term, not individual explanation in the customer's personal account.

Not enough in my view. Personally I'd rather pay a few more quid for the couple of minutes it would take the examiner to write a quick explanation, as it pertains to the generic term employed for the individual coin.     

Edited by 1949threepence

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2 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Corrosion ,Verd ,Damage ,Fake ,Altered etc

“Altered” would seem the one category, out of those listed, where further explanation is required, the others being self explanatory.

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Reading through the various posts and replies. It would seem logical had the person asked at the time it could have been explained by the Graders.

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