Evil Gypsies

[Master Jmd 50]

The other day (not sure when), a car hit another car, knocking the other car's mirrors off, whilst pulling into a petrol station. In the car that was responcible for the accident were four teenagers - three males and one female. Inside the car that was hit were two mid-30's Gypsies.

Car 1 (the car with the teenagers inside) sped off so as not to start confrontation. Car 2 (the car with the gypsies inside) followed them and kept ramming the car. Car 1 rolled over, killing the two male teenagers instantly and putting the female into a coma.

The third male was still consious and shocked. He managed to get out of the toppled car. The two gypsie men got out of their car and beat him to death before getting back into their car and speeding off.

A witness of the crime called the police and ambulance services to see what had just happened. The female, who was in a coma, died shortly after she had been put in the ambulance.

Four teenagers were killed by gypsies for just accidently knocking the mirror of a car.

My deepest condolences to the parents and family of the teenagers.

Edited May 2, 2005 by Master Jmd

[Sylvester 15]

There are gypsies out there like that for sure, but just as there are gypsies out there with those traits so there are many other people out there that do similarly cruel things for little to no reason, look at these people recently that have been shot and stabbed in the street for no reason. Plus drive by killings. You can't be too careful with anyone these days.

And i'm sure not all gypsies are like that, sounds alot like a classic case of scape goating to me, blaming more obvious targets because they don't fit in with society's 'norms'.

[custard1966 1]

The other day (not sure when), a car hit another car, knocking the other car's mirrors off, whilst pulling into a petrol station. In the car that was responcible for the accident were four teenagers - three males and one female. Inside the car that was hit were two mid-30's Gypsies.

Car 1 (the car with the teenagers inside) sped off so as not to start confrontation. Car 2 (the car with the gypsies inside) followed them and kept ramming the car. Car 1 rolled over, killing the two male teenagers instantly and putting the female into a coma.

The third male was still consious and shocked. He managed to get out of the toppled car. The two gypsie men got out of their car and beat him to death before getting back into their car and speeding off.

A witness of the crime called the police and ambulance services to see what had just happened. The female, who was in a coma, died shortly after she had been put in the ambulance.

Four teenagers were killed by gypsies for just accidently knocking the mirror of a car - Be careful whenever you approach or talk to gypsies.

My deepest condolences to the parents and family of the teenagers.

If this actually happened then it's appalling and unforgivable.

But you Master Jmd should be ashamed of youself for making a ludicrous and unfair generalisation from this one incident.

Presumably these people were English - should we be careful when approaching any English people?

This is the kind of scapegoating and name-calling that the Daily Mail and others seem to delight in, but it's irresponsible, ignorant and just plain wrong.

[Sylvester 15]

If this actually happened then it's appalling and unforgivable.

But you Master Jmd should be ashamed of youself for making a ludicrous and unfair generalisation from this one incident.

Presumably these people were English - should we be careful when approaching any English people?

This is the kind of scapegoating and name-calling that the Daily Mail and others seem to delight in, but it's irresponsible, ignorant and just plain wrong.

More eloquently put that my reply Custard.

I was in two minds whether or not to edit Master JMD's post there to prevent any offence to anyone, but i realised that i'm not moderating this part of the forum.

Plus Master JMD has the right to express his opinion even if i don't agree with it myself.

Although reading his post it sounded alot like he'd pasted it straight from one of the aforementioned tabloids.

[Emperor Oli 0]

I expected this to be some kind of parody of scare-mongering by the likes of Veritas or the BNP. A quick scout of various agencies shows up no articles which match what you purport happened. Something like this would have been front page material, no?

[Peter 615]

It could easily have been 2 scousers,geordies,East Anglian Farm workers.....Gypsies are getting bad press albeit some of it deserving and are an easy target for the stirring of racial hatred.

The guys who commited the crime ?????should be locked away for good....rest assured 99.999% of Gypsy folk wouldn't hide these ghouls.

In my younger days the pub I frequented (most nights) was visited occasionally by about 20 gypsies.

Me and a couple of mates stood our ground on the pool table/dart board facilities.

To cut a long story short after a while the crack was fierce....a really nice bunch of lads....never a hint of trouble.

They would self regulate..if one of them started getting a bit rowdy the rest nipped it in the bud.

But people from Norfolk...well thats another matter.

[Master Jmd 50]

Sorry about what I said about Gypsies, I was angry because firstly my mum told me that a friend from her workplace had driven past the aftermath of the accient and enquired into what had happened, and then when I logged into MSN a friend asked me if I had heard anything about a crash of quite similar description if not the same crash in the same area that had killed two of her Cousin's friends - of which she knew and was quite upset by.

I am not sure about the press though. I haven't read through any newspapers recently and I do not think it has been on the bbc news for my area. - Maybe its a matter that the police want kept quiet about until after the elections?

...sorry if I offended anyone.

[custard1966 1]

If this actually happened then it's appalling and unforgivable.

But you Master Jmd should be ashamed of youself for making a ludicrous and unfair generalisation from this one incident.

Presumably these people were English - should we be careful when approaching any English people?

This is the kind of scapegoating and name-calling that the Daily Mail and others seem to delight in, but it's irresponsible, ignorant and just plain wrong.

More eloquently put that my reply Custard.

I was in two minds whether or not to edit Master JMD's post there to prevent any offence to anyone, but i realised that i'm not moderating this part of the forum.

Plus Master JMD has the right to express his opinion even if i don't agree with it myself.

Although reading his post it sounded alot like he'd pasted it straight from one of the aforementioned tabloids.

There are some things that no-one has a right to express. There is a crime called incitement to racial hatred which prohibits certain opinions from being expressed.

There will and should always be some limits on freedom of expression.

[krasnaya_vityaz 0]

In a lot of larger cities in North America they have a problem with "road rage" It isn't relational to anything about ethnicity etc, it is just plain aggressive people out to take out their misbeggoten childhoods out on someone on the road.

I have travelled in many many countries, and have seen stupid stuff on the road in just about everyone of them. It is almost as though since the days of the pike and axe are thusly past, that we now arm ourselves with our automobiles in the quest of destructive emotional release.

[Sylvester 15]

There are some things that no-one has a right to express. There is a crime called incitement to racial hatred which prohibits certain opinions from being expressed.

There will and should always be some limits on freedom of expression.

I disagree, i think in a proper democracy everyone should have the right to say what they want, that is free will and freedom of speech, in a democracy everyone is (or should) be equal to say what they want or choose to say. The vast majority will fall in line of their own accord because of the fear of social disapproval.

What i do hate are those (like Mr Blair) that rant on about the importance of democracy and then go about trying to limit people's rights, including their freedom of speech.

So i'd ask Mr Blair, is freedom of speech and equal rights only good when it suits him?

I don't like racism myself and i think those that are, are bigotted, uneducated morons, plebs if you will. That is my own personal opinion of them, that's my freedom of speech on the matter, as far as i am concerned racists can say what they like, just don't be shocked if i don't have any sympathy for them.

As they say democracy truely is an awful system of government cos power can get in the wrong hands, Mr Churchill certainly had a point.

But of course i'd be blind to think we live in a true democracy, what we actually live in is a political system of meritocracy with a facade of democracy.

Why not just drop the facade it's insulting to us all? Blair pushing 'democracy' on the one hand whilst trying to make everyone carry I.D cards, or go to war against Iraq without the people's consent.

[Geordie582 18]

Here! Here! There are too many people about, these days, that want everyone to toe their particular line and the right to say what you think becomes a crime. Politicians rule by fear, of one sort or the other, and it's about time everyone realised that.

As an aside, this is a quote from David Blunkett (in the Mail on Monday, shock horror!)

" All we politicians can do is work our hardest to create a better world for ourselves and for those who come after us". He means the following politicians of course!

Edited May 3, 2005 by Geordie582

[Emperor Oli 0]

I disagree, i think in a proper democracy everyone should have the right to say what they want, that is free will and freedom of speech,

We don't live in true democracies now. That said, even if we did have truly free speech, people would still be held accountable to their words; there would be ramifications to what they said. A person cannot say something utterly vile with there being no consequences. In theory, there would be free speech, but in practise, it wouldn't really exist.

[custard1966 1]

There are some things that no-one has a right to express. There is a crime called incitement to racial hatred which prohibits certain opinions from being expressed.

There will and should always be some limits on freedom of expression.

I disagree, i think in a proper democracy everyone should have the right to say what they want, that is free will and freedom of speech, in a democracy everyone is (or should) be equal to say what they want or choose to say. The vast majority will fall in line of their own accord because of the fear of social disapproval.

What i do hate are those (like Mr Blair) that rant on about the importance of democracy and then go about trying to limit people's rights, including their freedom of speech.

So i'd ask Mr Blair, is freedom of speech and equal rights only good when it suits him?

I don't like racism myself and i think those that are, are bigotted, uneducated morons, plebs if you will. That is my own personal opinion of them, that's my freedom of speech on the matter, as far as i am concerned racists can say what they like, just don't be shocked if i don't have any sympathy for them.

As they say democracy truely is an awful system of government cos power can get in the wrong hands, Mr Churchill certainly had a point.

But of course i'd be blind to think we live in a true democracy, what we actually live in is a political system of meritocracy with a facade of democracy.

Why not just drop the facade it's insulting to us all? Blair pushing 'democracy' on the one hand whilst trying to make everyone carry I.D cards, or go to war against Iraq without the people's consent.

You have a right to express your disagreement

I don't think it's unreasonable that either right-wing groups or Islamic fundamentalists should be prevented from preaching death to those they consider inferior.

Note also that we have libel and slander laws which constrain what you may or may not say/publish about individuals.

I don't quite see what any of this has to do with your diatribe against Blair.

I don't recall him doing anything to lessen or impair freedom of speech - though I am strongly opposed to the proposed law banning insulting of religions.

Your point about the Iraq war seems to be based on a misunderstanding about the nature of our democracy. It is a representative democracy and our representatives voted in favour of it.

A true democracy would be where all the enfranchised decide on every issue - government by referendum. This would be appalling in my view.

[Guest Rob]

Tony Blair happily restrained frredom of speech by effectively blocking any protests about the Chinese occupation of Tibet in order that the Chinese Premier - a well known outspoken supporter of human rights and free speech, should not be offended. Two people who like to have total control.

[Sylvester 15]

A true democracy would be where all the enfranchised decide on every issue - government by referendum. This would be appalling in my view.

I always admired Athenian Democracy, and John Stuart Mill.

So by rights i am quite a Liberal, or Libertarian if you prefer.

[custard1966 1]

A true democracy would be where all the enfranchised decide on every issue - government by referendum. This would be appalling in my view.

I always admired Athenian Democracy, and John Stuart Mill.

So by rights i am quite a Liberal, or Libertarian if you prefer.

Unfortunately, the Athenians didn't include slaves or women in their electorate.

[Sylvester 15]

Unfortunately, the Athenians didn't include slaves or women in their electorate.

Every system has it's flaws, those of course were quite common ones typical to the period.

But British democracy was equally restrictive until about 1918.

A few tweaks here and there.

[custard1966 1]

Tony Blair happily restrained frredom of speech by effectively blocking any protests about the Chinese occupation of Tibet in order that the Chinese Premier - a well known outspoken supporter of human rights and free speech, should not be offended. Two people who like to have total control.

The fact that you are free to make such criticism - and wouldn't be in China - suggests that your comparison is somewhat unfair.

[Guest rob]

Tony Blair happily restrained frredom of speech by effectively blocking any protests about the Chinese occupation of Tibet in order that the Chinese Premier - a well known outspoken supporter of human rights and free speech, should not be offended. Two people who like to have total control.

The fact that you are free to make such criticism - and wouldn't be in China - suggests that your comparison is somewhat unfair.

Not totally unfair. Tony Blair had the choice to mention or not mention China's actions and presumably didn't so as not to offend. On moral grounds he certainly could have, but that was his choice. That he chose to gag other peoples' protests was wrong as he is therefore saying you can have rights when it is convenient for me. The right to voice a contrary opinion precisely when it is inconvenient to the political leaders of the day is the fundamental basis of free speech.

[Sylvester 15]

The right to voice a contrary opinion precisely when it is inconvenient to the political leaders of the day is the fundamental basis of free speech.

Correct.