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10 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

They're just an extension of the same mindset. In numbers terms, the rest think very differently. Moreover, Scotland is a special case as the SNP prevails there. 

I would, however, take a special look at Wales where Labour have done well. You have to ask yourself why have they done so well there, when most of the rest of the country are fed up to the back teeth with their incessant carping, accusing and name calling. Maybe it's got something to do with the fact they've got an old school guy, Mark Drakeford, Welsh speaker, calmly gets on with the job, massively successful with the vaccine rollout (better than the rest of us), criticises where relevant and necessary and isn't obsessed with wokery.    

Surely you must accept that Labour have been annihilated in England, apart from the pockets you mention. That hasn't happened for no reason.  

Also, for the serving government to out perform the opposition so comprehensively, and win a by election from Labour, in a former Labour stronghold, 17 months into their tenure says a lot about that opposition. 

I thought you were talking about Brexit? ("I think Labour lost a lot of votes in the brexit constituencies (wards) because the mass of the working class got fed up with being labelled "thick racists", especially by a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle.")

I certainly agree that Labour has been annihilated in England (as opposed to Wales, Scotland, and N Ireland, where the Tories are either almost non-existent or else a minor presence). I think there are several factors for this:

  • an electorate who are often duped by personality rather than substance (BloJob)
  • the success of the vaccine roll out, despite the government's best efforts
  • the 'Brexit factor' prevailing in the North who for some reason don't seem to include BloJob as part of the 'metropolitan elite' who have ripped them off for decades
  • the swing of the pendulum

And on that last point, you may or may not remember the prognosis after 1997 that the Tories "had been wiped out for a generation". The pendulum will swing back again, though currently I don't see how.

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49 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

I thought you were talking about Brexit? ("I think Labour lost a lot of votes in the brexit constituencies (wards) because the mass of the working class got fed up with being labelled "thick racists", especially by a tiny left wing liberal elite inside the M25 circle.")

I certainly agree that Labour has been annihilated in England (as opposed to Wales, Scotland, and N Ireland, where the Tories are either almost non-existent or else a minor presence). I think there are several factors for this:

  • an electorate who are often duped by personality rather than substance (BloJob)
  • the success of the vaccine roll out, despite the government's best efforts
  • the 'Brexit factor' prevailing in the North who for some reason don't seem to include BloJob as part of the 'metropolitan elite' who have ripped them off for decades
  • the swing of the pendulum

And on that last point, you may or may not remember the prognosis after 1997 that the Tories "had been wiped out for a generation". The pendulum will swing back again, though currently I don't see how.

I'm not very keen on Peter Mandelson, but he's manifestly a highly intelligent guy, and he summed things up well last night with lose, lose, lose, lose Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose lose. 

Blair obviously made some bad mistakes and ultimately didn't endear himself in the public consciousness, but it's his kind of soft Labour, and group of competent ministers, which appeals to the public. Look at the shadow cabinet now. They don't exactly inspire confidence.  

Labour and Labour activists are mired in factional fighting, and sniping at the "Tory scum" - making up, as you have done, school playground names for the PM, that they've lost sight of what the electorate are seeking. Moreover, you've also fallen into the same trap of inferring that the public is stupid (your word "duped"). All Labour's (and the MSM's)  efforts to smear the government with the low level stuff about Boris's flat etc, fell on deaf ears because the vast majority are just not interested. The criticism needs to be something which will resonate with the electorate. 

What Labour lack is a clear idea of a constructive way forward. Like some original ideas which capture the public imagination. Not to mention a charm offensive to net floating voters. At the moment they're just presenting an open goal to Boris Johnson. 

I hope the pendulum does swing back again, as we desperately need an effective opposition, and a credible alternative at the next election. It's just not healthy if the same lot keep being elected. 

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by your second bullet point, as the vaccine rollout was a true example of a collaborative effort. Downplaying the government's role in that, is just factually inaccurate. Also, although they're catching up now, we left the EU far behind with that rollout as we were a lot quicker off the mark when it came to ordering it in the first place. Whatever your opinion, that is hard fact. Good job we had an escape clause from the EMA, or we'd have been in the same boat as them, given we were still in their sphere of influence up to 31.12.20. 

      

 

 

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On 5/8/2021 at 10:23 PM, 1949threepence said:

I'm not very keen on Peter Mandelson, but he's manifestly a highly intelligent guy, and he summed things up well last night with lose, lose, lose, lose Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose lose. 

Blair obviously made some bad mistakes and ultimately didn't endear himself in the public consciousness, but it's his kind of soft Labour, and group of competent ministers, which appeals to the public. Look at the shadow cabinet now. They don't exactly inspire confidence.  

Labour and Labour activists are mired in factional fighting, and sniping at the "Tory scum" - making up, as you have done, school playground names for the PM, that they've lost sight of what the electorate are seeking. Moreover, you've also fallen into the same trap of inferring that the public is stupid (your word "duped"). All Labour's (and the MSM's)  efforts to smear the government with the low level stuff about Boris's flat etc, fell on deaf ears because the vast majority are just not interested. The criticism needs to be something which will resonate with the electorate. 

What Labour lack is a clear idea of a constructive way forward. Like some original ideas which capture the public imagination. Not to mention a charm offensive to net floating voters. At the moment they're just presenting an open goal to Boris Johnson. 

I hope the pendulum does swing back again, as we desperately need an effective opposition, and a credible alternative at the next election. It's just not healthy if the same lot keep being elected. 

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by your second bullet point, as the vaccine rollout was a true example of a collaborative effort. Downplaying the government's role in that, is just factually inaccurate. Also, although they're catching up now, we left the EU far behind with that rollout as we were a lot quicker off the mark when it came to ordering it in the first place. Whatever your opinion, that is hard fact. Good job we had an escape clause from the EMA, or we'd have been in the same boat as them, given we were still in their sphere of influence up to 31.12.20

It's not just Labour who throw names at the PM. Those who know him well say there's a quite nasty, very egocentric, often incompetent person behind the superficial eccentric bluster.

I said "often" duped, and I'm talking mainly about England, and the northerners who've been ripped off for decades by all parties.  Not the "public at large" - please, read my posts properly before replying.

The government have made terrible and costly mistakes during the pandemic: late to the first lockdown despite clear warnings from Italy; some sleazy double dealing over PPE contracts; and late to the second lockdown, especially the fiasco about Xmas.

"What Labour lack is a clear idea of a constructive way forward. Like some original ideas which capture the public imagination. Not to mention a charm offensive to net floating voters." I agree 100%

"All Labour's (and the MSM's)  efforts to smear the government with the low level stuff about Boris's flat etc, fell on deaf ears because the vast majority are just not interested." Yes, and that's the problem. And has been all along, long before the Big Red Bus with its lies. People just don't see through him, or else they do, and still forgive him because of his (carefully managed) scruffy hair, 'hail fellow well met' manner. He's really a piece of work, but does 'dupe' so many people.

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Why does the subject of politics make people think that they can behave like Trolls ?

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5 hours ago, secret santa said:

Why does the subject of politics make people think that they can behave like Trolls ?

Do you actually know what a troll is?

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Some truths:

 

 People who want power will act like people who want power .

People who don't realise this are always amazed when it happens.

 

All governments keep certain sections of society under-educated and under paid.

This stops them playing up, and makes them take jobs that over-paid and over-educated people wouldn't do.

 

All amateur pundits have no power at all after the event.

Every time someone moans to me about Brexit, I ask them what they did to stop it- holding meetings, writing letters, organising petitions etc.,

and none of them did.  THEY ALL HOPED SOMEONE ELSE WOULD DO IT.

We are all like a group of football fans in a pub saying that  "We should never have sold that player'"etc....

WE?  WE? Do they think their views have been considered? Do they think they are on the Board?

Madness- 'their' football team just takes their season ticket money. That's all.

 

Meanwhile, people like the Chinese sit back and laugh as they ignore all rules whilst claiming they follow them,

and are so happy that we are fighting amongst themselves so therefore cannot be a credible opposition to anything they do.

Like Labour is at the moment.  "Divide and Rule', anyone?

 

Every country gets the Government it deserves.

 

The saddest thing is this acrimony after starting a thread about someone who rose above all this somewhat....:-(

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Marty felman - gone too soon

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7 hours ago, copper123 said:

Marty felman - gone too soon

What hump?

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One hump or two?

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3 hours ago, copper123 said:

One hump or two?

Ah...linking Young Frankenstein and the last Remake of Beau Geste very neatly.....impressed....

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Where-wolf?

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