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VickySilver

Ongoing Spink Sale (17/1/21) Featuring OUTRAGEOUS Prices

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10 minutes ago, pokal02 said:

A nasty sting in the tail for me as Spink delivered my lot to an address I left in 2005 (I'd have collected in person but for lockdown restrictions).  Fortunately, although the present occupant had opened the package, she willingly handed it over.    

 

Myself and Spink both at fault here.  The online invoice did indeed show my old address - it didn't occur to me to check immediately as I've had stuff from Spink sent to my new address many times since 2005.   It seems I must have had two accounts and for some reason they re-activated the dormant one - they have assured me that the two accounts now merged and the old address deleted! 

I doubt the old ones are ever dormant as they would accept bids from a previously valid account unless they had closed it, plus a lot of people have more than one account. e.g. I have a couple accounts with a few places, one used for private and the other business to keep the finances separate. I would have to physically advise them to merge the details.

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Quite a positive editorial regarding the future of coin collecting in Coin Weekly.

Looks like outrageous prices might continue for some time to come....

Untitled.jpg.e3eab0cacd7573edb0f692dfcd6f22d4.jpg

 

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On 1/17/2021 at 4:25 PM, Rob said:

It's always depressing to think you might have a bid at 2 or 3 times the estimate, only to see it sail off into the distance.

This was an interesting comment based on the recent DNW auction I was watching. It made me think more - what does the "Estimate" mean? I thought it was a best professional judgment on what the Lot would be worth, but is it now acting more as simply a reserve price for the auction house? Or is the recent "market" just overpaying? At what point would the market force the conclusion that these are simply under-estimates? (But if they up the auction, the minimum bid may deter bidders? I know I would not have considered the coin I was watching had the estimate been more correct). 

After a month of hopeful anticipation, and waking up at 5am with some coffee to watch the auction, having submitted a bid three times the estimate in hopes of easily winning, for a lot estimated around 100£... 

Presentation1.jpg.92b9a7dd83d20abff3a7b184009d6dc2.jpg

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I think you might be right there, combined with a bit of pulling something out of the air....Please don't let those prices fool you. On occasion foreign used to go for a bit low but even that seems to be the rare case nowadays.

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7 hours ago, myt said:

This was an interesting comment based on the recent DNW auction I was watching. It made me think more - what does the "Estimate" mean? I thought it was a best professional judgment on what the Lot would be worth, but is it now acting more as simply a reserve price for the auction house? Or is the recent "market" just overpaying? At what point would the market force the conclusion that these are simply under-estimates? (But if they up the auction, the minimum bid may deter bidders? I know I would not have considered the coin I was watching had the estimate been more correct).

Estimates are simply the auction house's "finger in the air" which may or may not be based on past experience. Also bear in mind that some are "come and get me" estimates, set artificially low to encourage a bidding war.

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DNW estimates for lots with a few pennies in seem to be in the "let's get your hopes up" range. :lol:

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1 hour ago, mrbadexample said:

DNW estimates for lots with a few pennies in seem to be in the "let's get your hopes up" range. :lol:

Some of them are ludicrously low - like the £150 to £250 for an 1863 die No 3 under date last year.  

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It's a difficult one. We all know the market is a bit hot at the moment, but it wasn't always the same, and there are always some pieces that slip under the radar. We also have our own view on what a particular coin is worth  - is the estimate low, high or just right?

Say you are Spink and have to put an estimate on the lot. You have an annual tome with prices which should provide a good guide to the expected outcome at auction and DNW etc will almost certainly be in the same ballpark, but that can never account for two individuals determined to buy the coin and we've all been there. The recent monopoly of on-line auctions has also ensured that buying is now relatively concentrated on a small number of outlets, with a larger number of buyers taking part. This has to partly responsible for the uplift in prices. But is not always the case, as conversely, many lots in the Bates sale for example went for peanuts and a lot less than he paid.

Estimates will also reflect the reserve required by the vendor. If a vendor insists on a high reserve, the estimate must reflect that. If there is no reserve then it can be set at any level and will almost certainly be at one which is guaranteed to sell, the admin of dealing with unsold lots not having great appeal to the auction house. Spink used to buy in unsold lots at a percentage of estimate and list them in the Circular, but that obviously no longer happens. Unsolds therefore have to be returned to the vendor, or included in a subsequent sale. The anarchy penny from Tutbury that was the subject of a thread on this forum was listed a few times with DNW and eventually sold for about 60% of the original estimate. i.e. the vendor wanted too much.

I suppose the only thing that matters is the price you would be willing to pay, because the estimate is irrelevant to the final outcome, whatever the level. And that means doing your homework if you want to pay something in line with the current market.

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Not really my area of interest but I can appreciate pennies a lot more now, especially after following some topics on here. There are some cracking pennies coming up at Spink Feb 24th auction, a very nice Freeman 59 and 184. Will we see more outrageous prices I wonder?

 

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Does the trend continue?

Anyone outraged at being well and truly Spinked today?  Are your Numismatic 'Circular's' still twitching?

I only followed a small part and I missed out on a couple of pieces which sold at about the right price. I was thinking of picking them up as duplicates so bid accordingly, a self fulfilling prophesy, won nothing, so it could have been a complete waste of time, hadn't I enjoyed it so much. 

 

 

 

 

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I did win two lots at decent prices, but missed out on four others. LCA has some nice coins soon, so hopefully a win or two there.

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Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800.

I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh.....

Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

 

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6 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800.

I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh.....

Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

 

That pattern halfpenny is purchased by a friend of mine. It is indeed an expensive one but collecting rare copper coins is a hobby of him.

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7 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800.

I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh.....

Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

 

Spink tends to be another Heritage auction those days. It is quite common, if you look at the Vigo crown sold in the Erik Miller sale. It sold for 23000 GBP (without buyer premium) on March 26, 2019, while it is graded by ngc and sold in heritage for a massive 54000 dollar on Jan 13, 2020 (include buyer premium).

Edited by celtic_coin

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7 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800.

I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh.....

Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

 

Nowadays a lot of  rich people buy rare british coins for hard assetment managment (because of ngc and pcgs, this trend has incerased signficantly).

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13 minutes ago, celtic_coin said:

 

 

That pattern halfpenny is purchased by a friend of mine. It is indeed an expensive one but collecting rare copper coins is a hobby of him.

 

I have to say it's a lovely coin, it cost me quite a bit more than £850.

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19 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Does the trend continue?

Anyone outraged at being well and truly Spinked today?  Are your Numismatic 'Circular's' still twitching?

I only followed a small part and I missed out on a couple of pieces which sold at about the right price. I was thinking of picking them up as duplicates so bid accordingly, a self fulfilling prophesy, won nothing, so it could have been a complete waste of time, hadn't I enjoyed it so much. 

 

 

 

 

I only bought one coin in the spink auction yesterday -- 1732 half guinea au55. The price is slightly beyond the "fair price", and I am quite lucky. Those kind of rare coins can easily be far more expensive than "fair price". An au58 1731 half guinea sold for 4800 pounds without buyer premium.

Edited by celtic_coin
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19 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Does the trend continue?

Anyone outraged at being well and truly Spinked today?  Are your Numismatic 'Circular's' still twitching?

I only followed a small part and I missed out on a couple of pieces which sold at about the right price. I was thinking of picking them up as duplicates so bid accordingly, a self fulfilling prophesy, won nothing, so it could have been a complete waste of time, hadn't I enjoyed it so much. 

 

 

 

 

What surprise me is it there are so many "collectors" who are bound to estimates. For example, a ms62 1887 two pounds sold for 1500 pounds without buyer premium, which is far more expensive than "far price", and it estimates: 1400 pounds to 1600 pounds. Those days, I only buy rare coins at spink auction, as buying normal coins at the spink can be too costly.

Edited by celtic_coin

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Those days are difficult for collectors. For example, the briots sixty shilling ms61 is bought by wessex coins for around 10500 pounds(including buyer premium), but he lists that on his website for an unreasonable 18500 pounds. For some rare coins, you need to be "luxury" at some time, otherwise you are likely to find it far more expensive on a “dealer"’s website.

Edited by celtic_coin
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3 minutes ago, celtic_coin said:

Those days are difficult for collectors. For example, the briots sixty shilling ms61 is bought by wessex coins for around 10500 pounds(including buyer premium), but he lists that on his website for an unreasonable 18500 pounds. For some rare coins, you need to be "luxury" at some time, otherwise you are likely to find it far more expensive on a “dealer"’s website.

 

Edited by celtic_coin

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9 hours ago, oldcopper said:

Here's a price rise in that sale: Anne pattern halfpenny P726: £1,800.

I sold it in their March 2020 sale for £850. Aaagh.....

Someone made a few hundred quid on it.

 

I acquired mine for 350 when Stone sold up, which was ok given he paid 500 for it in Nicholson. Happy days :)

 

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2 hours ago, celtic_coin said:

I only bought one coin in the spink auction yesterday -- 1732 half guinea au55. The price is slightly beyond the "fair price", and I am quite lucky. Those kind of rare coins can easily be far more expensive than "fair price". An au58 1731 half guinea sold for 4800 pounds without buyer premium.

should be beneath rather than beyond

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