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Paulus

Charles I York Halfcrown Provenance Sought

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Posted (edited)

I'm finalising due diligence on this piece, here's the provenance the seller has provided but would like to know more about such a striking coin ... hoping someone can help? @Rob?

The provenance so far is superb of course, I would like to go back further!

Provenance:

Spink Numismatic Circular 1985 (£850)
Spink Numismatic Circular 1986 (£850)
Spink Auction 117, 1996 £605 hammer 
ex Coins of Britain 2016
Ex Maurice Bull Collection

1643_hc_york_mm_lion_type_7_01_ref_02057_obv_03_sellers_alan_worby_1200.png?w=474&h=4741643_hc_york_mm_lion_type_7_01_ref_02057_rev_03_sellers_alan_worby_1200.png?w=474&h=474

 

Edited by Paulus
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I assume Ebor is York other than that I can offer nothing on its provenance accept it seems an extremely well struck coin for a hammered sample.

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Posted (edited)

I don't have anything more at the moment other than to say that Lloyd bought it in Spink 240 on 26th Sept 2016 for £620 hammer. As for prior to 1985, I suggest you might be on a hiding to nothing. York halfcrowns are too common to be extensively illustrated in old catalogues and even in good grade tended to be made up in bulk lots of 2-4 coins of the type until the last 30-40 years. Occasionally you get lucky, but even in this grade it's not a given. The only civil war halfcrowns that were routinely imaged were the W/SA and Chester issues. These two are more hit, whereas the other provincial mints are more miss. Unfortunately Besly's article is too late to be of use as it was written around the time when your provenance starts, so it won't be pushed back using a die pair description.

It's a good coin and the same die pair as mine (2F) which is one of the scarcer combinations. I have 7 on the list including one with EBOR erased and one in the BM. Yours is an earlier strike than mine and possibly the best available. The flaw which develops below the horse's hoof through EBOR is barely a discolouration on yours. Whatever, for comparison see below.

2F-RJP - Copy.jpg

Edited by Rob

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4 hours ago, ozjohn said:

I assume Ebor is York other than that I can offer nothing on its provenance accept it seems an extremely well struck coin for a hammered sample.

Sorry about the spelling of course it should be except.

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6 hours ago, Rob said:

I don't have anything more at the moment other than to say that Lloyd bought it in Spink 240 on 26th Sept 2016 for £620 hammer. As for prior to 1985, I suggest you might be on a hiding to nothing. York halfcrowns are too common to be extensively illustrated in old catalogues and even in good grade tended to be made up in bulk lots of 2-4 coins of the type until the last 30-40 years. Occasionally you get lucky, but even in this grade it's not a given. The only civil war halfcrowns that were routinely imaged were the W/SA and Chester issues. These two are more hit, whereas the other provincial mints are more miss. Unfortunately Besly's article is too late to be of use as it was written around the time when your provenance starts, so it won't be pushed back using a die pair description.

It's a good coin and the same die pair as mine (2F) which is one of the scarcer combinations. I have 7 on the list including one with EBOR erased and one in the BM. Yours is an earlier strike than mine and possibly the best available. The flaw which develops below the horse's hoof through EBOR is barely a discolouration on yours. Whatever, for comparison see below.

2F-RJP - Copy.jpg

Many thanks Rob

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21 hours ago, Rob said:

 

2F-RJP - Copy.jpg

I do like those very early milled coins.

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Sorry to put a spanner in the works! I don't think the SNC provenances are correct.  I read your post and was looking through old catalogues etc. seeing if I could find anything, and checked the 1985 and 1986 SNC's. The only coins that match the description (type 7, both priced at £850) are May 1985 no. 3086, pictured on p.140, and Oct. 1986 no. 6944, pictured on p.283. Neither of these are your coin (yours is nicer). Perhaps the seller simply meant these were other examples of the same dies? But the Spink 117 lot 359 provenance is correct (confirmed by picture), as is the 2016 one from Spink listed by Rob.

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3 minutes ago, kildonan said:

Sorry to put a spanner in the works! I don't think the SNC provenances are correct.  I read your post and was looking through old catalogues etc. seeing if I could find anything, and checked the 1985 and 1986 SNC's. The only coins that match the description (type 7, both priced at £850) are May 1985 no. 3086, pictured on p.140, and Oct. 1986 no. 6944, pictured on p.283. Neither of these are your coin (yours is nicer). Perhaps the seller simply meant these were other examples of the same dies? But the Spink 117 lot 359 provenance is correct (confirmed by picture), as is the 2016 one from Spink listed by Rob.

Not at all, I much appreciate the spade work! I don't have the SNCs in question, are you able to display the pics from them at all?

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Here you go - 1985 first. Also showing the listings of both.

3086.jpg.6ce897723197b09cbea40c5a5982869c.jpg

6944.jpg

listings.JPG

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