Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Sign in to follow this  
Weaver

1895 Penny variation? 5 further apart

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

Just been sorting through my old Victoria penny collection and saw something odd about the date on this 1895 coin.

My photo shows a Penny with standard size date on top of the possible variation.

Is there a known variety where the 5 is one dentical further apart from the 9 ?

Thank you all in advance for any confirmatory replies...

Stay Safe!

Weaver (wayne)

1895 penny var 5 further apart.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.Its now been attributed by Michael Gouby as BP1895Bb. 

They are much scarcer than the standard one in the top picture 👍

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome! Thanks for your swift reply my man 😎

I would grade the coin as Fair condition, so do you have any idea of value?

Cheers,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a narrower type as well, it I think will be in Michael Gouby's next update as BP1895Ba perhaps you could confirm that Pete.

DSCN2930.JPG.6d50a7868161b17dcac4c936a5b2c8c8.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's interesting Terry, I never knew that there were so many different variations when it came to the 1895-1901 pennies? 🧐

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

There's a narrower type as well, it I think will be in Michael Gouby's next update as BP1895Ba perhaps you could confirm that Pete.

DSCN2930.JPG.6d50a7868161b17dcac4c936a5b2c8c8.JPG

I know he is aware of lots of date widths and varieties he has been told about or found since 2009.

How many and which ones he decides to attribute though Terry i have not got a clue 🙂

As far as your question on the value Wayne i have no idea sorry , £25 in that grade maybe ( a guess ) they are scare but not many interested in date widths .Although there would only be one way to find out really and maybe put it on eBay.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for your reply.

I'm definitely going to sell it as it's now become an even more interesting part of my collection.

However, I have emailed Michael Gouby to ask him if he will give me some more info.

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I meant to say that I'm definitely NOT going to sell it. Oops!☺️

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Weaver said:

Sorry, I meant to say that I'm definitely NOT going to sell it. Oops!☺️

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

Indeed, I'd definitely keep it.

I'll be very interested to see Michael Gouby's additions and amendments to "The British Bronze Penny", which was issued in 2009, and there have obviously been many new discoveries since then, such as the 1895 wider date.  I understand he hopes to issue something very soon.   

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike,

I received an email reply from Michael Gouby this morning confirming that my 1895 penny was indeed BP1895Ba

This is his update on the progress of additions and amendments to 2009 "The British Bronze Penny"...

At present I am preparing the many pages of “Additions and Amendments”, as an add on to my book. It appears that many new discoveries have been found since I published back in 2009. There is a  new obverse, a new reverse, several error legend repairs, plus all of the new date widths that have come to light. My work on getting these new pages ready is taking some time as new items keep appearing for inclusion. The final layout, pictures and text have not been finalised.

There you go!

Hopefully it will be available soon.

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry (again!) I meant that my 1895 penny is the variation BP1895Bb.

Must concentrate harder...🤣

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Weaver said:

Hi Mike,

I received an email reply from Michael Gouby this morning confirming that my 1895 penny was indeed BP1895Ba

This is his update on the progress of additions and amendments to 2009 "The British Bronze Penny"...

At present I am preparing the many pages of “Additions and Amendments”, as an add on to my book. It appears that many new discoveries have been found since I published back in 2009. There is a  new obverse, a new reverse, several error legend repairs, plus all of the new date widths that have come to light. My work on getting these new pages ready is taking some time as new items keep appearing for inclusion. The final layout, pictures and text have not been finalised.

There you go!

Hopefully it will be available soon.

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

Thanks Wayne. 

Michael is a great guy who always answers questions comprehensively and quickly. Invariably pleasant as well.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree.

Have you all got his 2009 book?

I currently own and refer to David J. Groom's 'The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze coin varieties', so would you guys recommend ordering Michael's book as well? It's a little bit more expensive (£50) than Groom's paperback.

Your thoughts?...

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Weaver said:

I agree.

Have you all got his 2009 book?

I currently own and refer to David J. Groom's 'The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze coin varieties', so would you guys recommend ordering Michael's book as well? It's a little bit more expensive (£50) than Groom's paperback.

Your thoughts?...

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

I have, and trust me, although it may be on the pricey side, it's well worth it. I consider it to be as much of a "bible" as Freeman's book. One of those I look at most days. Although some of his rarity estimates are now out of date, as well as prices. 

I've also got "The British Bronze coinage 1860 to 1869" by him. Another great source of info.

Haven't got Dave Groom's 20th century bronze book yet. Have you found that useful?    

Edited by 1949threepence
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2020 at 12:31 PM, Weaver said:

That's interesting Terry, I never knew that there were so many different variations when it came to the 1895-1901 pennies? 🧐

To be honest, there are too many to be interesting IMO. It's always the final digit in the date and nothing else, nothing. It would be like collecting every single variant of 1861 and 1862 pennies where the position, angle, space, slant, of the final digit varies with just about die used. Once you started you'd never stop. No disrespect intended to Michael Gouby but recording all these micro differences as distinct varieties doesn't seem to be a worthwhile exercise. That's my two pennorth anyway.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I have, and trust me, although it may be on the pricey side, it's well worth it. I consider it to be as much of a "bible" as Freeman's book. One of those I look at most days. Although some of his rarity estimates are now out of date, as well as prices. 

I've also got "The British Bronze coinage 1860 to 1869" by him. Another great source of info.

Haven't got Dave Groom's 20th century bronze book yet. Have you found that useful?    

Morning Mike,

Thanks for your recommendation.

Groom's book is handy as it's lightweight, inexpensive and comprehensive but none of the photos featured have useful arrows or other indicators to clearly point out what to look for. Also, all the photos are in black and white from the 2009 edition.

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

To be honest, there are too many to be interesting IMO. It's always the final digit in the date and nothing else, nothing. It would be like collecting every single variant of 1861 and 1862 pennies where the position, angle, space, slant, of the final digit varies with just about die used. Once you started you'd never stop. No disrespect intended to Michael Gouby but recording all these micro differences as distinct varieties doesn't seem to be a worthwhile exercise. That's my two pennorth anyway.

That's a very interesting slant on the topic.

I must admit spending five hours looking at the number 9 and trying to sort them into long tail and short tail variations on my 220 x Edward VII pennies was going a bit far 🤪

But I am interested in more obvious variations like ones that can be easily detected by the eye.

Ultimately, I guess that there is something for everyone in the world of numismatics eh?

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 hours ago, Weaver said:

would you guys recommend ordering Michael's book as well?

Absolutely essential !!!!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, secret santa said:

 

Absolutely essential !!!!

Now that's a HUGE recommendation!

Guess I'd better get my wallet out then...😂

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Weaver said:

That's a very interesting slant on the topic.

I must admit spending five hours looking at the number 9 and trying to sort them into long tail and short tail variations on my 220 x Edward VII pennies was going a bit far 🤪

But I am interested in more obvious variations like ones that can be easily detected by the eye.

Ultimately, I guess that there is something for everyone in the world of numismatics eh?

Best wishes,

Weaver (wayne)

Yes, I think I'd soon lose the will to live studying long and short tailed 9's, Wayne.

Varieties are interesting, but then there are varieties and varieties. As Chris @Peckris 2 rightly says, there is a limit beyond which the types become ever more random and relatively unimportant. I'm not sure I'd apply that principle to the distant 5 on the 1895, but I certainly would to the final digit "1" on an 1861 reverse G, for example.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Weaver said:

Morning Mike,

Thanks for your recommendation.

Groom's book is handy as it's lightweight, inexpensive and comprehensive but none of the photos featured have useful arrows or other indicators to clearly point out what to look for. Also, all the photos are in black and white from the 2009 edition.

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

Talking about Michael Gouby's books - one I have wanted for a long time is "The British Bronze Penny 1860 to 1970", but unfortunately it's sold out on Michael's own website, and I can't find one anywhere else either (Amazon, e bay, other internet search). Will just have to be patient for a specimen to turn up at some point.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, secret santa said:

 

Absolutely essential !!!!

If anything, that's an understatement....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Bronze & Copper Collector said:

If anything, that's an understatement....

Thanks again for the endorsement! 

It's clearly one of the research 'bibles' of numismatics.

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

Yes, I think I'd soon lose the will to live studying long and short tailed 9's, Wayne.

Varieties are interesting, but then there are varieties and varieties. As Chris @Peckris 2 rightly says, there is a limit beyond which the types become ever more random and relatively unimportant. I'm not sure I'd apply that principle to the distant 5 on the 1895, but I certainly would to the final digit "1" on an 1861 reverse G, for example.  

That is true about the 1861/62 date positioning of the last digit', but some extremely interesting ones do turn up, and I think this to be one .

290382045_1861exnarrow6110.5tooth2.JPG.b1a8a08f284f45bcedb94623703adbe4.JPG

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, terrysoldpennies said:

That is true about the 1861/62 date positioning of the last digit', but some extremely interesting ones do turn up, and I think this to be one .

290382045_1861exnarrow6110.5tooth2.JPG.b1a8a08f284f45bcedb94623703adbe4.JPG

Now you couldn't miss that one with the naked eye eh?

Just goes to show that really interesting varieties show up regularly on all grades of coin.

Good lesson for a new collector! Always spend time studying your new coins with a good quality magnifying device.

All the best,

Weaver (wayne)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×