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Don't mess with the wilh of the people. The people have spoken, get used to it. Weekend Australian.

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Edited by ozjohn
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The London Labour elite badly miscalculated the mood of the country as it stood outside the M25. 

Of course, the elephant in the room is that with a more credible leader, Labour would probably have strolled it.

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Our constituency scraped home thanks to the (suspended) former Labour MP standing as an independent against them and also recommended people vote Conservative when canvassing. He resigned the whip over the anti-semitism question because he is Jewish and we have a large Jewish population in this area (which is why he has always enjoyed a substantial majority). Last time we had a Conservative MP was prior to 1997, when the incumbent had a majority of 11. Needless to say, he lost. But hey-ho, miraculously a job appeared in Brussels to compensate for the loss of income.

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Sorry a typo. Should be with not Wilh. 

1949threepence. You are right about a London  elite but as for labor winning with a different leader ? No way the people wanted the result of the 2016 referendum implemented. That's all

 

 

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Virtually all the seats captured by the tories in Labour's North & Midlands had voted Leave in 2016. This really was the Brexit election.

Apart from those captures, and Scotland, the results everywhere else were little changed from 2017. The TOTAL Tory vote in the entire UK only increased by 1%. If ever there was a clear indicator for PR that was it.

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Public Relations?

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The policy of giving 60 - 66 year old women £40,000  - £20,000 compensation for having to work an extra 5 years was bonkers and also in effect sexual discrumination - wheres the compensation for me having tio work the same ?

It would also have had an unbelieveable cost thousands of billions

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39 minutes ago, copper123 said:

The policy of giving 60 - 66 year old women £40,000  - £20,000 compensation for having to work an extra 5 years was bonkers and also in effect sexual discrumination - wheres the compensation for me having tio work the same ?

It would also have had an unbelieveable cost thousands of billions

Agreed, I'll have to wait until I'm 68, so I don't see why they should get any further concessions. Besides which, it would have a knock on effect to the age group just below the waspi women, who would then say they were being unfairly treated. 

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13 hours ago, ozjohn said:

Sorry a typo. Should be with not Wilh. 

1949threepence. You are right about a London  elite but as for labor winning with a different leader ? No way the people wanted the result of the 2016 referendum implemented. That's all

 

 

And yet it's been reported that in traditionally Labour areas, many householders have said to activists who were doorstepping, that they couldn't vote for a party with Corbyn as the leader. 

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Many of the Labour hierarchy seem to be pushing the idea that this was solely a ‘Brexit’ election despite being of course multifactorial with personal dislike of Corbyn among Labours own voters being a massive issue,  and distrust and certainly disregard for their ‘promise everything’ manifesto. I would of course not want to disillusion them,  as continuation of left wing leadership in the same vein would suit the Tories very well,  especially as none of the current postulated leadership candidates appear to be inspirational,  though a couple are quite good in a shouting match.

I am a bit sad that I will not be able to pay my £3 and show my massive support for the least able leadership candidate  like hundreds of thousands did last time. That was a wonderful exercise in democracy,  being able to choose in advance who your opposition will be prior to an actual election. I’m hoping the SNP will do the same and we can get Alex Salmond back, I’ve got my Scottish birth certificate ready!

Jerry

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Irish passport application time for me and my daughters now. The wife needs to get her family documents sorted lol.

 

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17 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The London Labour elite badly miscalculated the mood of the country as it stood outside the M25. 

Of course, the elephant in the room is that with a more credible leader, Labour would probably have strolled it.

I hope not! Redistribution, essentially uncompensated re-nationalisation etc etc. Nice one for shares and private pensions. Also the massive importation of a Labour bloc-vote in immigrants, (~75% of non-UK born residents vote labour from analysis of recent elections) with immediate voting rights. Plus giving the vote to 16 and 17 years olds (in a rigged 2nd referendum) who's only experience of political views in many cases has been their Marxist teachers and remain and left-leaning social media. What's not to like?

The financial markets response to the election result is revealing.

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One of my daughters was going to vote Labour. She's at uni and it seems fashionable.

I asked her to look at the historic trends that follow a labour government and the reasons for those trends.

I also suggested she looked at how many Tory govenerments had started wars.

Oddly she changed her vote, because it turns out much of the truth about labour isn't published lol.

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Well Tony Blair [ Labour of course]  took us to war in Iraq , propping up Bush's spurious claims of weapons of mass destruction so as to secure oil concessions for US companies I presume , this has of course left us in the west with the problems we now face with Muslims   .   With the exception of the Attlee government, I have during my seven decades seen the Labour party came to power three times , under Wilson /  Wilson-Callaghan  / Blair- Brown , and every time they've  left us with an economic disaster , and frankly I think it would have been even worse under Corbyn.

Edited by terrysoldpennies
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20 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

The London Labour elite badly miscalculated the mood of the country as it stood outside the M25. 

Of course, the elephant in the room is that with a more credible leader, Labour would probably have strolled it.

Merely the latest event in a congenital problem for almost all politicians - living in their London-centric-Westminster bubble being the norm.

Before the referendum in 2016, if they had gone into any Dog and Duck up and down the country and asked the people beforehand, they might have realised the need to make a real case for remain and persuade voters rather than assuming the masses would blindly follow their belief in armageddon and reject leave.

Come 2019 the parallels are everywhere. No need to ask the people who aren't politically active, because we know they will vote for us as they have proved time and time again. They rest assured that the thousands of members will vote for which ever, whilst ignoring the volatile allegiances of the millions who are politically unaffilliated. One day they will realise that outside party constraints people are not on political auto-pilot. The referendum was only 3 years ago, not a political myth lost in the mists of time.

Edited by Rob
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Getting more like this by the day as they turn into weeks and months

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13 hours ago, copper123 said:

The policy of giving 60 - 66 year old women £40,000  - £20,000 compensation for having to work an extra 5 years was bonkers and also in effect sexual discrumination - wheres the compensation for me having tio work the same ?

It would also have had an unbelieveable cost thousands of billions

 

No-one I know quarrels with the idea of equalising pension ages for men and women. But that process was begun with a gradual postponement of womens' pensions until the Cameron government decided to speed it up hugely. The result of this is that women born a month later than others had to wait more than a year - sometimes 2 or 3 - compared to women born a bit earlier for their state pension. There's nothing fair about that, and the "cost" is only relevant if you calculate it from the loss of savings from that unfair rapid process. Even then, the "thousands of billions" mentioned is utterly laughable.

 

12 hours ago, jelida said:

Many of the Labour hierarchy seem to be pushing the idea that this was solely a ‘Brexit’ election despite being of course multifactorial with personal dislike of Corbyn among Labours own voters being a massive issue,  and distrust and certainly disregard for their ‘promise everything’ manifesto. I would of course not want to disillusion them,  as continuation of left wing leadership in the same vein would suit the Tories very well,  especially as none of the current postulated leadership candidates appear to be inspirational,  though a couple are quite good in a shouting match.

I agree that Corbyn was a major factor. However, if you look at where Labour lost seats (mostly the North & Midlands) they were nearly all Leave seats. So to that extent, i.e. statistically, it WAS a Brexit election.

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11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

 So to that extent, i.e. statistically, it WAS a Brexit election.

Except that Labour couldn’t gain seats in the leave voting south, apart from a ‘two for one’ swap in London. So there was clearly much more at play. But don’t get me wrong, I am very happy for this result to be seen in Labour circles as a Brexit election. And I wouldn’t disagree with an interpretation that it was a re-run of the Brexit referendum , which is what you seem to be saying. 🤭

Jerry

Edited by jelida

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The problem arising from allowing concessions to waspi women is that there will obviously then be a further knock on effect to men who reach 66 when the ages are supposed to be equalised - from next year I believe, only to find that their age has gone up, but women of exactly the same age are getting a financial concession. 

Nothing then to stop those men taking action under sex equality legislation and demanding they get a concession back to 65. Where does it stop? 

I appreciate the process was accelerated for those women born between 1952 and 1954, but it was for men too, to bring forward equalisation at 66 for both sexes from 2020. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

The problem arising from allowing concessions to waspi women is that there will obviously then be a further knock on effect to men who reach 66 when the ages are supposed to be equalised - from next year I believe, only to find that their age has gone up, but women of exactly the same age are getting a financial concession. 

Nothing then to stop those men taking action under sex equality legislation and demanding they get a concession back to 65. Where does it stop? 

I appreciate the process was accelerated for those women born between 1952 and 1954, but it was for men too, to bring forward equalisation at 66 for both sexes from 2020. 

 

 

To further muddy the water, legal claims have been brought and upheld over private pension schemes were women retired at 60 and men at 65,  all the men would have to be compensated for the inequality in those schemes, one case is still in court and if upheld would mean enhancement of all private schemes including those already in payment.

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6 hours ago, Chingford said:

To further muddy the water, legal claims have been brought and upheld over private pension schemes were women retired at 60 and men at 65,  all the men would have to be compensated for the inequality in those schemes, one case is still in court and if upheld would mean enhancement of all private schemes including those already in payment.

To be fair, it's a difficult one to get out of, legally. The companies running those schemes are caught between a rock and a hard place. 

From a wider perspective, equality is equality. You can't cherry pick the best bits and reject the rest. 

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9 hours ago, 1949threepence said:

I appreciate the process was accelerated for those women born between 1952 and 1954, but it was for men too, to bring forward equalisation at 66 for both sexes from 2020.

That's the whole issue. The original plan was reasonable, but the government  was greedy and decided to accelerate the process, which is what has created the WASPI Women.

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12 hours ago, jelida said:

Except that Labour couldn’t gain seats in the leave voting south, apart from a ‘two for one’ swap in London. So there was clearly much more at play. But don’t get me wrong, I am very happy for this result to be seen in Labour circles as a Brexit election. And I wouldn’t disagree with an interpretation that it was a re-run of the Brexit referendum , which is what you seem to be saying. 🤭

Jerry

The crucial thing is - despite the demonising of Corbyn - that Labour didn't lose seats in the South. It wasn't actually a rerun of the referendum or the Brexit Party would have won more than a handful of seats. I was just saying that Labour's losses were in Leave seats.

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11 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

The crucial thing is - despite the demonising of Corbyn - that Labour didn't lose seats in the South. It wasn't actually a rerun of the referendum or the Brexit Party would have won more than a handful of seats. I was just saying that Labour's losses were in Leave seats.

I laugh when I see anyone whinge about the "demonization" or smearing of Corbyn. There is no need to embellish the truth about the man. and he hasn't sued anyone yet as far as I'm aware. The Guardian, Independent and Mirror seem to run Google news and they treat him like a saint compared to Boris. So online news and twitter are I think an important principal reason that more young people voted Labour - the wall-to-wall propaganda that they are fed through their mobile phones/computers, as well as from academia (of whom ~80% vote Labour apparently). Also, don't forget Labour rely on the ethnic vote in London to a large extent- I wouldn't think that has much to do with leave/remain.

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