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Colin88

Slabbing - Learnt my lesson

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I've learnt my lesson ...never again ....whether its the fact that in the US they still don't really understand non US coins, particularly varieties, whether its the fact that if its not in Krause they don't understand...or whether they employ visually impaired people ..or whether they grade depending on what mood they are in.. because the inconstancies in grading are enormous and for me at least, not acceptable.

Never again.

 

    

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any pictures of what your unhappy with ? 

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Was it a variety ?

I do think they dont attribute a lot as the variety and just put i.e. 1860 Penny.

Watching a you tube video that was mentioned on here last week one coin had been sent four times untill they had a closer look ,i dont think thats fair and must of taken months from start to finish.

I also note your post on here 1st of March 2016 that you had sent a mule penny they had just attributed as a normal one ,so not the first time its happened 😟

Sad that there is a breakdown in communication from the day you send it untill receiving it back ,if something was not correct they could possibly have a second look before putting it in plastic.

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It would surely be pertinent to fully describe the coin to the best of your knowledge.

Maybe the ham fisted cowboy's may then look further than Krause.

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I had to ask twice at PCGS to add die letter A on the halfpenny I had, they again had it labelled as a normal halfpenny, after 2 phonecalls it was eventually labelled properly. This is one reason i’m Glad NGC are here in Munich, I can at least talk my grievance over in person, hopefully if they do this on a full time basis then the process will get easier, but they obviously need more than just a Krause book to look at when going over British coins.

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I had a few coins graded with LCGS end of last year, you are able to add the variety to the submission sheet along with provenances etc..

The attribution and grade are listed, BEFORE the coin is slabbed and in one instance I questioned the variety given, the coin was revisited and changed accordingly.

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6 minutes ago, Chingford said:

I had a few coins graded with LCGS end of last year, you are able to add the variety to the submission sheet along with provenances etc..

The attribution and grade are listed, BEFORE the coin is slabbed and in one instance I questioned the variety given, the coin was revisited and changed accordingly.

I thought these coins were slabbed by " experts" they should not be in a job if they cannot atribute a coin properly - they should have the appropriate books to refer to or is that something they lack knowlage of as well.

6 minutes ago, Chingford said:

I had a few coins graded with LCGS end of last year, you are able to add the variety to the submission sheet along with provenances etc..

The attribution and grade are listed, BEFORE the coin is slabbed and in one instance I questioned the variety given, the coin was revisited and changed accordingly.

 

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5 minutes ago, copper123 said:

I thought these coins were slabbed by " experts" they should not be in a job if they cannot atribute a coin properly - they should have the appropriate books to refer to or is that something they lack knowlage of as well.

 

Some varieties are not in books and there is nobody on this planet who knows about every single worldwide denomination....Although some people might think they do :D

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6 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

Some varieties are not in books and there is nobody on this planet who knows about every single worldwide denomination....Although some people might think they do :D

Very true, but if you are actually telling them what it is on the submission form then they have a good place to start and reference the coin

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3 minutes ago, azda said:

Very true, but if you are actually telling them what it is on the submission form then they have a good place to start and reference the coin

Yes Dave but it does not mean they have to agree with you.Believe me and i can only mention pennies , plenty are not always what the person thinks they may have 🙂

I think with regards CGS we are only talking about a few ,but the main plus is you can hopefully if your right get it sorted by a quick phone call as in fairness they do listen.

Mistakes will always happen .

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55 minutes ago, copper123 said:

I thought these coins were slabbed by " experts" they should not be in a job if they cannot atribute a coin properly - they should have the appropriate books to refer to or is that something they lack knowlage of as well.

 

The coin in question is not referenced but one I found after years of research and study, therefore a discussion was required to confirm my opinion, which was accepted and recorded on the slab and within the LCGS listings. All TPG go by reference books and as seen on this Forum many new varieties have been discovered, the flexibility for a TPG to embrace these is of the upmost importance for all denomination collectors to see a new variety properly recorded.

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6 hours ago, PWA 1967 said:

Some varieties are not in books and there is nobody on this planet who knows about every single worldwide denomination....Although some people might think they do :D

Why google is usefull for practicaly everything coin related.

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Well, I can say they for sure make mistakes, BUT on major rarities or patterns, they will send the coin out (eg I know some of mine have been sent to Steve Hill and also Mark Rasmussen - I can' t think of better predecimal milled silver references as they trump [don't use that word, I'm sorry] Bull, etc.).

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1 hour ago, VickySilver said:

Well, I can say they for sure make mistakes, BUT on major rarities or patterns, they will send the coin out (eg I know some of mine have been sent to Steve Hill and also Mark Rasmussen - I can' t think of better predecimal milled silver references as they trump [don't use that word, I'm sorry] Bull, etc.).

Do you mean the auctioneers will send the coins out prior to grading for conformation ,such as somewhere like Heritage ?

I very much doubt if someone sent a coin to a TPG in America they would send the coin to another country as does not sound cost effective ?

Although obviously thats what they did with your own i doubt they would do it for someone like me 🙂

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did you pay extra for the variety attribution?

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I can tell you for a fact that on three  of my coins they were  sent to UK and then back again - they were out for > 3 months. PM if you want details...

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Thanks Eric.

The only details though i would like to know is were the coins sent by a TPG to the UK as you mentioned or an auction house ?

For the TPG company to assign a variety by sending the coin to someone in the UK not employed by them (Mark Rasmussen ) i cant get my head round 😮

 

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1 hour ago, PWA 1967 said:

 

For the TPG company to assign a variety by sending the coin to someone in the UK not employed by them (Mark Rasmussen ) i cant get my head round 😮

 

I don't think there is anything wrong for using external experts as consultants. If I remember correctly, the old cgs website claimed they have also used external experts on occasions to confirm authenticity to justify why there are no refunds in cases of forgery.

Edited by Sword

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34 minutes ago, Sword said:

I don't think there is anything wrong for using external experts as consultants. If I remember correctly, the old cgs website claimed they have also used external experts on occasions to confirm authenticity to justify why there are no refunds in cases of forgery.

I didnt say there was anything wrong ?

The question was ........Were the coins sent from America to the UK by a TPG ?

Edited by PWA 1967

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10 minutes ago, PWA 1967 said:

 

The question was ........Were the coins sent from America to the UK by a TPG ?

I think that's what VickySilver is saying.

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I must confess, slabbing is not my thing, and the slabbed coins I've bought have soon been liberated from their plastic incarceration. 

However, if I were sending one to NGC for slabbing, and it was a distinct variety, I would add that to the details I sent along with the coin, with accompanying technical explanation and provenance. I honestly wouldn't expect or trust an American company to do that for me with regards to a British coin. I'm not even sure it's really their job to do so - after all, they are following the customer's wishes to a large extent. Although I'd imagine they are a lot hotter on the technicalities/varieties of US coins.

If you buy a slabbed coin and it's got an incorrect variety attribution, I'd say that's down to the buyer's carelessness in not checking the pics properly first. I start from the standpoint that everybody I deal with is an idiot/charlatan/has defective eyesight/is careless, until proven otherwise. It's safer that way.    

I'd also follow the same process with LCGS, although I would anticipate them being more knowledgeable (although still far from infallible) on British coins.    

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Yes, these were my coins that I sent in to be graded/slabbed. Actually included the "duck tailed milling" proof specimen shilling, florin, half crown of 1920. I think they may have also sent my 1937 silver farthing model reverse as well. I think also a couple of pattern Vicky half sovs.

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I bought a coin at auction which was slabbed by NGC and incorrectly attributed. I called NGC and they agreed they had got it wrong and asked me to send it back so that they could fix the attribution at no cost to me.

Incorrect attributions do happen although, in my experience, not very often. What matters is how the TPG deals with the error when it comes to light. 

However, overall, my experience with NGC is that they invariably get the grade and the attribution right. Part of the problem is that we, as collectors, often have some emotion invested in our coins and we sometimes think they are better than an impartial third party might.

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I agree....but you know what,  after 40 years of actively collecting I think I have a fair idea of what my coins are and what grade they are...also if they send coins to Mark Rasmussen and  Steve Hill then I could save myself a lot of time and money and show it to them here....its not what I'm paying for and waiting months for.    

Also if you send the same coin to 3 different TPG's you will invariably get 3 different results.

 

 

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I think that a written note from them would do worlds if it could be directly tied to a specific coin. Their opinion would be near the top I would imagine and especially for milled predecimal coinage.

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