Jump to content
British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com

50 Years of RotographicCoinpublications.com A Rotographic Imprint. Price guide reference book publishers since 1959. Lots of books on coins, banknotes and medals. Please visit and like Coin Publications on Facebook for offers and updates.

Coin Publications on Facebook

   Rotographic    

The current range of books. Click the image above to see them on Amazon (printed and Kindle format). More info on coinpublications.com

predecimal.comPredecimal.com. One of the most popular websites on British pre-decimal coins, with hundreds of coins for sale, advice for beginners and interesting information.

Sign in to follow this  
Generic Lad

Good Reference for Off-Metal Strikes and Patterns?

Recommended Posts

Is there a good general reference for off-metal strikes and patterns? Looking at auction records and it looks like a lot of them are pretty affordable (and I need to start buying more than just bullion and whatever low-grade non-US coins my LCS offers...) so was thinking about trying to learn more about it and picking up some (I may have picked up a cheaper lower grade silver farthing this evening on eBay at a pricepoint where I can sell locally if I decide to upgrade). Is there a generalized reference to it? Or is it all contained within the standard references of the main coins (eg: Peck for farthings/halfpennies)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no general reference, and more unrecorded pieces appear all the time. Most people with an interest in patterns will generate their own reference lists from the usual books, supplemented with observations from auction catalogues. Despite the desire and expectation of a 'complete' reference volume, there is insufficient interest to produce a comprehensive list. i.e. you can write the book, but relatively few collectors will be willing to pay for it - a request for 'Is it recorded?' or 'What is it?' is a regular question on this or any other forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Rob said:

There is no general reference, and more unrecorded pieces appear all the time. Most people with an interest in patterns will generate their own reference lists from the usual books, supplemented with observations from auction catalogues. Despite the desire and expectation of a 'complete' reference volume, there is insufficient interest to produce a comprehensive list. i.e. you can write the book, but relatively few collectors will be willing to pay for it - a request for 'Is it recorded?' or 'What is it?' is a regular question on this or any other forum.

Personally, I think that such a tome would be a very welcome addition to numismatic literature both for collectors and those who have an interest but hesitate to collect due to difficulty in finding information on availability or pricing. The small realm of collecting Commemorative medals is covered by Eimer quite comprehensively, such a guide covering patterns and off-metal strikes would find a market I'm sure. Surely such a book would also generate interest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure it would generate interest, and wouldn't be difficult to compile, but the cost of a print run means you would be in danger of spending a lot of money and sitting on the books for a long time. It wouldn't be like CCGB where you have a flimsy paperback, which presumably has quite a low unit cost, but rather a hardback printed on better quality paper with its attendant costs. There wouldn't be any point in producing something printed on loo roll because it wouldn't need to be updated very often. You would be looking at a RRP somewhere between 50 & 100 which most would refuse to pay.

There is also the terms of reference to consider. Do you include proofs for non-public set years?

I also thought about producing a concordance book. Super boring, but fundamentally useful, to the extent that it ought to be a staple for anyone doing research.

The cost is a major stumbling block for the simple reason that most people want the info, but are rarely willing to pay for it. Consequently nobody can be a***d to do the spadework other than for personal use.

There are plenty of books already in existence. Do I get asked for them? Nope.

Edited by Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So sounds like compiling references based on auction results is the best way to go for these :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rob said:

I'm sure it would generate interest, and wouldn't be difficult to compile, but the cost of a print run means you would be in danger of spending a lot of money and sitting on the books for a long time. It wouldn't be like CCGB where you have a flimsy paperback, which presumably has quite a low unit cost, but rather a hardback printed on better quality paper with its attendant costs. There wouldn't be any point in producing something printed on loo roll because it wouldn't need to be updated very often. You would be looking at a RRP somewhere between 50 & 100 which most would refuse to pay.

There is also the terms of reference to consider. Do you include proofs for non-public set years?

I also thought about producing a concordance book. Super boring, but fundamentally useful, to the extent that it ought to be a staple for anyone doing research.

The cost is a major stumbling block for the simple reason that most people want the info, but are rarely willing to pay for it. Consequently nobody can be a***d to do the spadework other than for personal use.

There are plenty of books already in existence. Do I get asked for them? Nope.

Point taken Rob and you have considerably more knowledge on the subject of demand and publishing costs than I ever will. Even Eimer must be sitting on a fair few copies of his book judging by the copy number I purchased from him  some time ago. Having said that, I’d love to see a modern collective work on patterns and off- metal strikes..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to divert, but as far as OMS, there are some grey areas to be sure. Some were of a purpose, and others genuine errors and others "mint sport". Sometimes a coin may fit into more than one category.

 

Examples of alloy testing OMS (some are specimen/proof, some are not):

 

1923 nickel 3d

1923 and 1924 nickel shillings (the latter in 5.0 and 5.7 gm)

1925 3d, 6d, 1/- of new coinage 1927 type in nickel

1922 florin in gold, 1927 half crown in gold (possible alloy testing for foreign coins); also gold 3d and 6d specimens from Pretoria mint

1927 OE sixpence in nickel

1946 1/-, 2/-, 2/6 in copper nickel all as testing for the upcoming copper-nickel general coinage of 1947

 

These are not cheap with the gold halfcrown being offered by Baldwins for 80k+ quid; the 1923 and 1924 issues in the 2.5-3k range.

 

OMS mint sport or error can be had for usually 2-300 pounds, the decimal 1971 1 & 2p and others not so much.

 

Blah, blah....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, VickySilver said:

Not to divert, but as far as OMS, there are some grey areas to be sure. Some were of a purpose, and others genuine errors and others "mint sport". Sometimes a coin may fit into more than one category.

 

Examples of alloy testing OMS (some are specimen/proof, some are not):

 

1923 nickel 3d

1923 and 1924 nickel shillings (the latter in 5.0 and 5.7 gm)

1925 3d, 6d, 1/- of new coinage 1927 type in nickel

1922 florin in gold, 1927 half crown in gold (possible alloy testing for foreign coins); also gold 3d and 6d specimens from Pretoria mint

1927 OE sixpence in nickel

1946 1/-, 2/-, 2/6 in copper nickel all as testing for the upcoming copper-nickel general coinage of 1947

 

These are not cheap with the gold halfcrown being offered by Baldwins for 80k+ quid; the 1923 and 1924 issues in the 2.5-3k range.

 

OMS mint sport or error can be had for usually 2-300 pounds, the decimal 1971 1 & 2p and others not so much.

 

Blah, blah....

VickySilver, interesting and worthy of a chapter in itself. 

Is there an old thread about this anywhere in the annals?

Overlapping groups of classification is interesting, is there any form of classification in print, a sort of taxonomy for Patterns?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really. Bull (the New ESC ) have some listed and Krause has some in the 19th and 20th C. are a couple...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's one on gold patterns etc (by Wilson and Rasmussen I think) but I think it's something of a niche area so Freeman is still probably the most up-to-date for bronze. Latest English Silver Coins might have improved on older editions but I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×