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rune

First hammered coins

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Hi, Im an avid collector of pre-decimal coins and a big fan of the cartwheel 2d and Victorian.

Recently I got my first couple of hammered coins from a charity shop. They arent great condition, one is a Charles I shilling and the other is a mystery.

The mystery coin should be shown below. I'd be grateful if anyone can identify it, or even say it is a coin. With some imagination, the inscription may be Steffan Rex. There is only a faint impression of a couple of letters on the back.

 

 

20190125_105505.jpg

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Its a penny of Stephen dating to 1135 - 1154. I can't make out which type though ( probably Watford type). The coinage from that period is not of a great standard unfortunately. Some dies where defaced during the Anarchy period so as not to show allegiance to any side. 

Edited by Ukstu

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Thanks for the quick reply Ukstu, I had considered Stephan, but the font/engraving and spelling in my coin book are nothing like that one.

Would the shape be a "mis-stamp" or was the impression on a bit of metal enough to signify its value?

Im surprised at the age and well chuffed despite how worn it is.

 

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Shapes about normal for that period , I've never saw one that was completely round , it's been clipped. People would probably of accepted it even if it was smooth back then as long as it was of reasonable size without lots of clipping. 

Good find , they are not easy to come by and not something you'd expect to find in a charity shop so you've done well. It is in a collectable condition. 

Edited by Ukstu

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It just goes to show that there are bargains to be had. I got that coin, the Charles I shilling, a medal minted for Oliver Cromwells death, and 1828 farthing with most of the lustre but a couple of corrosion spots on the reverse and two old pennies minted at Heatons for £8.00.

None were in brilliant condition, but far from the worst too.

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Excellent. Well done. It's very rare i ever find any decent coins in charity shops. I think a lot of it's picked up by staff or they hold it back for regular customers. 

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design looks a bit dodgy to me, letters and cross look stamped with a single pellet matrix/tool rather than various shaped correctly. Also looks a bit thick to be correct weight.

willing to be corrected though by someone with better knowledge though :)

 

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24 minutes ago, rpeddie said:

design looks a bit dodgy to me, letters and cross look stamped with a single pellet matrix/tool rather than various shaped correctly. Also looks a bit thick to be correct weight.

willing to be corrected though by someone with better knowledge though :)

 

Agreed. I was viewing it on my phone. As you say they look like single dot punches on closer inspection. Could it be a contemporary forgery?  

Edited by Ukstu

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could be yea, toning looks like something along those lines but style doesn't fit,  contemporary ones are a bit more spikey details than round but i cant tell for sure. pretty sure ifs not legit though :)

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They are not something i am familiar with myself. I've only ever viewed them in books or online but I'd agree it does not sit well on closer inspection. Those letters should not be single dot punch marks. 

Edited by Ukstu
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I don't know a lot about hammered coins, but the "S" looks like it was made by someone who couldnt engrave curves in the die. So used dots instead.Also, the inscription just doesn't match anything in books or the web.

The reverse if flat although there "may" be a couple of letters there.

I'm not too worried about it being a forgery, I would like it to be of the correct date, whatever that is, though.

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Anything you pick up in a charity shop could be iffy. As long as they only cost a pound or two though, you can't go wrong, but any more and you are playing with fire if you don't know what you are doing, because the charity shop won't have a clue what they have. If you want a forgery/modern copy, you might as well use alibaba.

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Hi, its been a while since I posted. Since then I have picked up another coin - in the same charity shop as it happens. To my eyes both look to be the same but I have no idea what it is supposed to be or even if its genuine. Maybe someone has a homemade die? But if it is fake, surely it would be a fake of "something".

Both coins look like the engraver couldn't do curves and used a punch instead. I've uploaded photos of the coins below.

The first one only had a design on one side and the other looks like it has the same design on both sides. I oriented both the same and highlighted what I think are deliberate features.

Any information, if any can be gleaned, would be gratefully received.

Dave

Send image will be uploaded next sue to size limit.

Coins 2small.jpg

Coins 1small.jpg

Edited by rune
Resized image

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I missed this thread the first time round but I'd be really interested in seeing your Cromwell medal.

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I cant seem to attach anything just now, no idea if its file size, upload limits or what. Will try another way...

Editing the post seems to allow images to be attached. Hope they were worth it :)Cromwell 2

 

 

cromwell 1.jpg

Edited by rune

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1 hour ago, rune said:

I cant seem to attach anything just now, no idea if its file size, upload limits or what. Will try another way...

Editing the post seems to allow images to be attached. Hope they were worth it :)Cromwell 2

 

 

cromwell 1.jpg

The design is of a medal commemorating Cromwell's death in 1658, thought to be of Dutch origin. I've only seen before in silver; I know of a gold example (see here).

There could of course have been a contemporary cast in white metal as per your example, or it could be a more modern copy. 

What's the weight ? Is there a seam on the edge ?

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Yes, there does look like a seam. Some of the circumference has a line protruding, some is indented and some looks like extra metal folded flat on the rim. I needed a loup to see it though.

Also that hole on his shoulder looks like a casting fault. Almost definitely white metal - I thought pewter.

I cant weight it tonight. If it matters I can do so tomorrow evening. No provenance, just a charity shop find with other coins.

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I thought it might be one of these, I see them from time to time.

Here's my usual sales spiel.

Death of Oliver Cromwell 1658, a Dutch copy of the Thomas Simon medal worn by mourners at Cromwell's funeral.

Obverse:

Bust left, laureate and armoured

Around which the legend:

OLIVAR. D.G. R.P. ANG.SCO. HIBERNIAE. PROTECTOR

Reverse:

A shepherd attending his flock near an olive tree

Around which:

NON. DEFITIENT. OLIVA. SEP.3 1658, VG

Contemporary cast copy of the large Dutch Medal

References:

Loon II, 420

Eimer 200

 

They usually come out around 49. mm, 28.5 gr

 

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